if condition in the past Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Contributor's Guide to English Language LearnersWhat does the “would have been” express in this sentence?
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if condition in the past
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Contributor's Guide to English Language LearnersWhat does the “would have been” express in this sentence?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
I want to ask someone that why he didn't tell me something in the past and I want to say the sentence as below:
if you knew that yesterday why you didn't tell me yesterday?
as I know this is not based on if condition formats and maybe I should have say:
if you knew that yesterday why you wouldn't tell me yesterday.
I am curious to know which sentence is correct if any of them is correct.
conditionals
migrated from english.stackexchange.com Apr 5 at 22:29
This question came from our site for linguists, etymologists, and serious English language enthusiasts.
|
show 2 more comments
I want to ask someone that why he didn't tell me something in the past and I want to say the sentence as below:
if you knew that yesterday why you didn't tell me yesterday?
as I know this is not based on if condition formats and maybe I should have say:
if you knew that yesterday why you wouldn't tell me yesterday.
I am curious to know which sentence is correct if any of them is correct.
conditionals
migrated from english.stackexchange.com Apr 5 at 22:29
This question came from our site for linguists, etymologists, and serious English language enthusiasts.
2
If you knew that yesterday why didn't you tell me [then/at the time/yesterday]?
– Smock
Apr 5 at 15:44
thx @Smock but based on third if condition format, if I am using past verb in the if part I should use "would" in the second part , please correct me if I wrong
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 15:48
1
It's not really a conditional statement as there is no statement, only a question. Conditional tenses are used to speculate about what could happen, what might have happened, and what we wish would happen. 'If you knew yesterday, you would have told me'.
– Smock
Apr 5 at 16:18
1
The version with would is used when the part that comes after if is hypothetical, as in if one day you realised you didn't love me, would you tell me? In your sentence there is no hypothetical, you are saying you knew yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then? That's why the would does not fit.
– Minty
Apr 5 at 16:36
1
This is not a conditional, so you shouldn't expect it to follow one of the three or four canonical conditional patterns. It can be rewritten as: You knew that yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then. Your alternative version with would is also not a conditional, and means: You knew that yesterday, so why wouldn't you (were you not willing to) tell me then? There are numerous other responses to conditional questions on this site quashing the notion that there are only three or four conditional constructions.
– Shoe
Apr 5 at 19:22
|
show 2 more comments
I want to ask someone that why he didn't tell me something in the past and I want to say the sentence as below:
if you knew that yesterday why you didn't tell me yesterday?
as I know this is not based on if condition formats and maybe I should have say:
if you knew that yesterday why you wouldn't tell me yesterday.
I am curious to know which sentence is correct if any of them is correct.
conditionals
I want to ask someone that why he didn't tell me something in the past and I want to say the sentence as below:
if you knew that yesterday why you didn't tell me yesterday?
as I know this is not based on if condition formats and maybe I should have say:
if you knew that yesterday why you wouldn't tell me yesterday.
I am curious to know which sentence is correct if any of them is correct.
conditionals
conditionals
asked Apr 5 at 15:42
joe gatesjoe gates
282
282
migrated from english.stackexchange.com Apr 5 at 22:29
This question came from our site for linguists, etymologists, and serious English language enthusiasts.
migrated from english.stackexchange.com Apr 5 at 22:29
This question came from our site for linguists, etymologists, and serious English language enthusiasts.
2
If you knew that yesterday why didn't you tell me [then/at the time/yesterday]?
– Smock
Apr 5 at 15:44
thx @Smock but based on third if condition format, if I am using past verb in the if part I should use "would" in the second part , please correct me if I wrong
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 15:48
1
It's not really a conditional statement as there is no statement, only a question. Conditional tenses are used to speculate about what could happen, what might have happened, and what we wish would happen. 'If you knew yesterday, you would have told me'.
– Smock
Apr 5 at 16:18
1
The version with would is used when the part that comes after if is hypothetical, as in if one day you realised you didn't love me, would you tell me? In your sentence there is no hypothetical, you are saying you knew yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then? That's why the would does not fit.
– Minty
Apr 5 at 16:36
1
This is not a conditional, so you shouldn't expect it to follow one of the three or four canonical conditional patterns. It can be rewritten as: You knew that yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then. Your alternative version with would is also not a conditional, and means: You knew that yesterday, so why wouldn't you (were you not willing to) tell me then? There are numerous other responses to conditional questions on this site quashing the notion that there are only three or four conditional constructions.
– Shoe
Apr 5 at 19:22
|
show 2 more comments
2
If you knew that yesterday why didn't you tell me [then/at the time/yesterday]?
– Smock
Apr 5 at 15:44
thx @Smock but based on third if condition format, if I am using past verb in the if part I should use "would" in the second part , please correct me if I wrong
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 15:48
1
It's not really a conditional statement as there is no statement, only a question. Conditional tenses are used to speculate about what could happen, what might have happened, and what we wish would happen. 'If you knew yesterday, you would have told me'.
– Smock
Apr 5 at 16:18
1
The version with would is used when the part that comes after if is hypothetical, as in if one day you realised you didn't love me, would you tell me? In your sentence there is no hypothetical, you are saying you knew yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then? That's why the would does not fit.
– Minty
Apr 5 at 16:36
1
This is not a conditional, so you shouldn't expect it to follow one of the three or four canonical conditional patterns. It can be rewritten as: You knew that yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then. Your alternative version with would is also not a conditional, and means: You knew that yesterday, so why wouldn't you (were you not willing to) tell me then? There are numerous other responses to conditional questions on this site quashing the notion that there are only three or four conditional constructions.
– Shoe
Apr 5 at 19:22
2
2
If you knew that yesterday why didn't you tell me [then/at the time/yesterday]?
– Smock
Apr 5 at 15:44
If you knew that yesterday why didn't you tell me [then/at the time/yesterday]?
– Smock
Apr 5 at 15:44
thx @Smock but based on third if condition format, if I am using past verb in the if part I should use "would" in the second part , please correct me if I wrong
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 15:48
thx @Smock but based on third if condition format, if I am using past verb in the if part I should use "would" in the second part , please correct me if I wrong
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 15:48
1
1
It's not really a conditional statement as there is no statement, only a question. Conditional tenses are used to speculate about what could happen, what might have happened, and what we wish would happen. 'If you knew yesterday, you would have told me'.
– Smock
Apr 5 at 16:18
It's not really a conditional statement as there is no statement, only a question. Conditional tenses are used to speculate about what could happen, what might have happened, and what we wish would happen. 'If you knew yesterday, you would have told me'.
– Smock
Apr 5 at 16:18
1
1
The version with would is used when the part that comes after if is hypothetical, as in if one day you realised you didn't love me, would you tell me? In your sentence there is no hypothetical, you are saying you knew yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then? That's why the would does not fit.
– Minty
Apr 5 at 16:36
The version with would is used when the part that comes after if is hypothetical, as in if one day you realised you didn't love me, would you tell me? In your sentence there is no hypothetical, you are saying you knew yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then? That's why the would does not fit.
– Minty
Apr 5 at 16:36
1
1
This is not a conditional, so you shouldn't expect it to follow one of the three or four canonical conditional patterns. It can be rewritten as: You knew that yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then. Your alternative version with would is also not a conditional, and means: You knew that yesterday, so why wouldn't you (were you not willing to) tell me then? There are numerous other responses to conditional questions on this site quashing the notion that there are only three or four conditional constructions.
– Shoe
Apr 5 at 19:22
This is not a conditional, so you shouldn't expect it to follow one of the three or four canonical conditional patterns. It can be rewritten as: You knew that yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then. Your alternative version with would is also not a conditional, and means: You knew that yesterday, so why wouldn't you (were you not willing to) tell me then? There are numerous other responses to conditional questions on this site quashing the notion that there are only three or four conditional constructions.
– Shoe
Apr 5 at 19:22
|
show 2 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Past verbs are often used for hypothetical conditions (what I think your teachers call "second conditional", but I've never heard that expression outside ESL teaching, so I'm not certain, and most English speakers won't know what you're talking about if you say it).
But this is not a hypothetical conditional, but a real conditional (what I think is called "first conditional") that happens to be in the past.
The first form you give
If you knew that yesterday why you didn't tell me yesterday?
is perfectly normal and grammatical.
The second form
If you knew that yesterday why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?
is also grammatical, but has a slightly different meaning. The modal verb "would" has several other meanings apart from its use as a pseudo-tense. Here it either means "why were you not willing to tell me yesterday?"; or else as an epistemic modal, meaning something like "Why could it possibly be the case that you didn't tell me yesterday?"
6
I think you need to address the flipped word order of "you didn't" and "you wouldn't"
– THiebert
Apr 5 at 18:20
7
To be clear neither "why you didn't tell me yesterday?" nor "why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?" are correct English.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 18:28
1
To be more clear, "you didn't" and "you wouldn't" are not grammatical in this context, they should be "didn't you" and "wouldn't you".
– Barmar
Apr 5 at 19:49
True. I missed that point.
– Colin Fine
Apr 5 at 21:59
add a comment |
This seems most natural to me:
If you knew that yesterday why didn't you tell me [then/at the time/yesterday]?
I'm trying to come up with a sentence using 'wouldn't' but they all feel terribly clumsy. These are about the best I can do:
If you knew yesterday, why would you not have told me?
or
If you knew yesterday, why wouldn't you have told me?
I suppose if you had asked someone about something the day before, but they said they didn't know, but then revealed that they did know, you could use this:
If you already knew, why wouldn't you tell me yesterday? (when I asked)
but it's still a bit clumsy, and the 'didn't' form still sounds better to my ear
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question?
Are you saying you think they are lying about knowing yesterday?
You could say this in the third conditional:
If you knew yesterday, you would have told me [already/yesterday]
I am getting your point but my problem is that based on conditional formula if I am using the past verb in the if part, I have to use "would" in the second part but this is against that rule (third conditional formula)
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 16:03
1
@joegates This is all contingent on how many conditionals you think actually exist: most EFL/ESL teachers would have it as only 3, but there are also mixed forms. Also...you did not invert the subject and verb in the question, making both sentences sound unnatural.
– Cascabel
Apr 5 at 18:32
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Past verbs are often used for hypothetical conditions (what I think your teachers call "second conditional", but I've never heard that expression outside ESL teaching, so I'm not certain, and most English speakers won't know what you're talking about if you say it).
But this is not a hypothetical conditional, but a real conditional (what I think is called "first conditional") that happens to be in the past.
The first form you give
If you knew that yesterday why you didn't tell me yesterday?
is perfectly normal and grammatical.
The second form
If you knew that yesterday why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?
is also grammatical, but has a slightly different meaning. The modal verb "would" has several other meanings apart from its use as a pseudo-tense. Here it either means "why were you not willing to tell me yesterday?"; or else as an epistemic modal, meaning something like "Why could it possibly be the case that you didn't tell me yesterday?"
6
I think you need to address the flipped word order of "you didn't" and "you wouldn't"
– THiebert
Apr 5 at 18:20
7
To be clear neither "why you didn't tell me yesterday?" nor "why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?" are correct English.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 18:28
1
To be more clear, "you didn't" and "you wouldn't" are not grammatical in this context, they should be "didn't you" and "wouldn't you".
– Barmar
Apr 5 at 19:49
True. I missed that point.
– Colin Fine
Apr 5 at 21:59
add a comment |
Past verbs are often used for hypothetical conditions (what I think your teachers call "second conditional", but I've never heard that expression outside ESL teaching, so I'm not certain, and most English speakers won't know what you're talking about if you say it).
But this is not a hypothetical conditional, but a real conditional (what I think is called "first conditional") that happens to be in the past.
The first form you give
If you knew that yesterday why you didn't tell me yesterday?
is perfectly normal and grammatical.
The second form
If you knew that yesterday why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?
is also grammatical, but has a slightly different meaning. The modal verb "would" has several other meanings apart from its use as a pseudo-tense. Here it either means "why were you not willing to tell me yesterday?"; or else as an epistemic modal, meaning something like "Why could it possibly be the case that you didn't tell me yesterday?"
6
I think you need to address the flipped word order of "you didn't" and "you wouldn't"
– THiebert
Apr 5 at 18:20
7
To be clear neither "why you didn't tell me yesterday?" nor "why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?" are correct English.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 18:28
1
To be more clear, "you didn't" and "you wouldn't" are not grammatical in this context, they should be "didn't you" and "wouldn't you".
– Barmar
Apr 5 at 19:49
True. I missed that point.
– Colin Fine
Apr 5 at 21:59
add a comment |
Past verbs are often used for hypothetical conditions (what I think your teachers call "second conditional", but I've never heard that expression outside ESL teaching, so I'm not certain, and most English speakers won't know what you're talking about if you say it).
But this is not a hypothetical conditional, but a real conditional (what I think is called "first conditional") that happens to be in the past.
The first form you give
If you knew that yesterday why you didn't tell me yesterday?
is perfectly normal and grammatical.
The second form
If you knew that yesterday why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?
is also grammatical, but has a slightly different meaning. The modal verb "would" has several other meanings apart from its use as a pseudo-tense. Here it either means "why were you not willing to tell me yesterday?"; or else as an epistemic modal, meaning something like "Why could it possibly be the case that you didn't tell me yesterday?"
Past verbs are often used for hypothetical conditions (what I think your teachers call "second conditional", but I've never heard that expression outside ESL teaching, so I'm not certain, and most English speakers won't know what you're talking about if you say it).
But this is not a hypothetical conditional, but a real conditional (what I think is called "first conditional") that happens to be in the past.
The first form you give
If you knew that yesterday why you didn't tell me yesterday?
is perfectly normal and grammatical.
The second form
If you knew that yesterday why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?
is also grammatical, but has a slightly different meaning. The modal verb "would" has several other meanings apart from its use as a pseudo-tense. Here it either means "why were you not willing to tell me yesterday?"; or else as an epistemic modal, meaning something like "Why could it possibly be the case that you didn't tell me yesterday?"
answered Apr 5 at 16:27
Colin FineColin Fine
32.2k24561
32.2k24561
6
I think you need to address the flipped word order of "you didn't" and "you wouldn't"
– THiebert
Apr 5 at 18:20
7
To be clear neither "why you didn't tell me yesterday?" nor "why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?" are correct English.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 18:28
1
To be more clear, "you didn't" and "you wouldn't" are not grammatical in this context, they should be "didn't you" and "wouldn't you".
– Barmar
Apr 5 at 19:49
True. I missed that point.
– Colin Fine
Apr 5 at 21:59
add a comment |
6
I think you need to address the flipped word order of "you didn't" and "you wouldn't"
– THiebert
Apr 5 at 18:20
7
To be clear neither "why you didn't tell me yesterday?" nor "why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?" are correct English.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 18:28
1
To be more clear, "you didn't" and "you wouldn't" are not grammatical in this context, they should be "didn't you" and "wouldn't you".
– Barmar
Apr 5 at 19:49
True. I missed that point.
– Colin Fine
Apr 5 at 21:59
6
6
I think you need to address the flipped word order of "you didn't" and "you wouldn't"
– THiebert
Apr 5 at 18:20
I think you need to address the flipped word order of "you didn't" and "you wouldn't"
– THiebert
Apr 5 at 18:20
7
7
To be clear neither "why you didn't tell me yesterday?" nor "why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?" are correct English.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 18:28
To be clear neither "why you didn't tell me yesterday?" nor "why you wouldn't tell me yesterday?" are correct English.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 18:28
1
1
To be more clear, "you didn't" and "you wouldn't" are not grammatical in this context, they should be "didn't you" and "wouldn't you".
– Barmar
Apr 5 at 19:49
To be more clear, "you didn't" and "you wouldn't" are not grammatical in this context, they should be "didn't you" and "wouldn't you".
– Barmar
Apr 5 at 19:49
True. I missed that point.
– Colin Fine
Apr 5 at 21:59
True. I missed that point.
– Colin Fine
Apr 5 at 21:59
add a comment |
This seems most natural to me:
If you knew that yesterday why didn't you tell me [then/at the time/yesterday]?
I'm trying to come up with a sentence using 'wouldn't' but they all feel terribly clumsy. These are about the best I can do:
If you knew yesterday, why would you not have told me?
or
If you knew yesterday, why wouldn't you have told me?
I suppose if you had asked someone about something the day before, but they said they didn't know, but then revealed that they did know, you could use this:
If you already knew, why wouldn't you tell me yesterday? (when I asked)
but it's still a bit clumsy, and the 'didn't' form still sounds better to my ear
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question?
Are you saying you think they are lying about knowing yesterday?
You could say this in the third conditional:
If you knew yesterday, you would have told me [already/yesterday]
I am getting your point but my problem is that based on conditional formula if I am using the past verb in the if part, I have to use "would" in the second part but this is against that rule (third conditional formula)
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 16:03
1
@joegates This is all contingent on how many conditionals you think actually exist: most EFL/ESL teachers would have it as only 3, but there are also mixed forms. Also...you did not invert the subject and verb in the question, making both sentences sound unnatural.
– Cascabel
Apr 5 at 18:32
add a comment |
This seems most natural to me:
If you knew that yesterday why didn't you tell me [then/at the time/yesterday]?
I'm trying to come up with a sentence using 'wouldn't' but they all feel terribly clumsy. These are about the best I can do:
If you knew yesterday, why would you not have told me?
or
If you knew yesterday, why wouldn't you have told me?
I suppose if you had asked someone about something the day before, but they said they didn't know, but then revealed that they did know, you could use this:
If you already knew, why wouldn't you tell me yesterday? (when I asked)
but it's still a bit clumsy, and the 'didn't' form still sounds better to my ear
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question?
Are you saying you think they are lying about knowing yesterday?
You could say this in the third conditional:
If you knew yesterday, you would have told me [already/yesterday]
I am getting your point but my problem is that based on conditional formula if I am using the past verb in the if part, I have to use "would" in the second part but this is against that rule (third conditional formula)
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 16:03
1
@joegates This is all contingent on how many conditionals you think actually exist: most EFL/ESL teachers would have it as only 3, but there are also mixed forms. Also...you did not invert the subject and verb in the question, making both sentences sound unnatural.
– Cascabel
Apr 5 at 18:32
add a comment |
This seems most natural to me:
If you knew that yesterday why didn't you tell me [then/at the time/yesterday]?
I'm trying to come up with a sentence using 'wouldn't' but they all feel terribly clumsy. These are about the best I can do:
If you knew yesterday, why would you not have told me?
or
If you knew yesterday, why wouldn't you have told me?
I suppose if you had asked someone about something the day before, but they said they didn't know, but then revealed that they did know, you could use this:
If you already knew, why wouldn't you tell me yesterday? (when I asked)
but it's still a bit clumsy, and the 'didn't' form still sounds better to my ear
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question?
Are you saying you think they are lying about knowing yesterday?
You could say this in the third conditional:
If you knew yesterday, you would have told me [already/yesterday]
This seems most natural to me:
If you knew that yesterday why didn't you tell me [then/at the time/yesterday]?
I'm trying to come up with a sentence using 'wouldn't' but they all feel terribly clumsy. These are about the best I can do:
If you knew yesterday, why would you not have told me?
or
If you knew yesterday, why wouldn't you have told me?
I suppose if you had asked someone about something the day before, but they said they didn't know, but then revealed that they did know, you could use this:
If you already knew, why wouldn't you tell me yesterday? (when I asked)
but it's still a bit clumsy, and the 'didn't' form still sounds better to my ear
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question?
Are you saying you think they are lying about knowing yesterday?
You could say this in the third conditional:
If you knew yesterday, you would have told me [already/yesterday]
answered Apr 5 at 15:57
SmockSmock
3916
3916
I am getting your point but my problem is that based on conditional formula if I am using the past verb in the if part, I have to use "would" in the second part but this is against that rule (third conditional formula)
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 16:03
1
@joegates This is all contingent on how many conditionals you think actually exist: most EFL/ESL teachers would have it as only 3, but there are also mixed forms. Also...you did not invert the subject and verb in the question, making both sentences sound unnatural.
– Cascabel
Apr 5 at 18:32
add a comment |
I am getting your point but my problem is that based on conditional formula if I am using the past verb in the if part, I have to use "would" in the second part but this is against that rule (third conditional formula)
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 16:03
1
@joegates This is all contingent on how many conditionals you think actually exist: most EFL/ESL teachers would have it as only 3, but there are also mixed forms. Also...you did not invert the subject and verb in the question, making both sentences sound unnatural.
– Cascabel
Apr 5 at 18:32
I am getting your point but my problem is that based on conditional formula if I am using the past verb in the if part, I have to use "would" in the second part but this is against that rule (third conditional formula)
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 16:03
I am getting your point but my problem is that based on conditional formula if I am using the past verb in the if part, I have to use "would" in the second part but this is against that rule (third conditional formula)
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 16:03
1
1
@joegates This is all contingent on how many conditionals you think actually exist: most EFL/ESL teachers would have it as only 3, but there are also mixed forms. Also...you did not invert the subject and verb in the question, making both sentences sound unnatural.
– Cascabel
Apr 5 at 18:32
@joegates This is all contingent on how many conditionals you think actually exist: most EFL/ESL teachers would have it as only 3, but there are also mixed forms. Also...you did not invert the subject and verb in the question, making both sentences sound unnatural.
– Cascabel
Apr 5 at 18:32
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2
If you knew that yesterday why didn't you tell me [then/at the time/yesterday]?
– Smock
Apr 5 at 15:44
thx @Smock but based on third if condition format, if I am using past verb in the if part I should use "would" in the second part , please correct me if I wrong
– joe gates
Apr 5 at 15:48
1
It's not really a conditional statement as there is no statement, only a question. Conditional tenses are used to speculate about what could happen, what might have happened, and what we wish would happen. 'If you knew yesterday, you would have told me'.
– Smock
Apr 5 at 16:18
1
The version with would is used when the part that comes after if is hypothetical, as in if one day you realised you didn't love me, would you tell me? In your sentence there is no hypothetical, you are saying you knew yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then? That's why the would does not fit.
– Minty
Apr 5 at 16:36
1
This is not a conditional, so you shouldn't expect it to follow one of the three or four canonical conditional patterns. It can be rewritten as: You knew that yesterday, so why didn't you tell me then. Your alternative version with would is also not a conditional, and means: You knew that yesterday, so why wouldn't you (were you not willing to) tell me then? There are numerous other responses to conditional questions on this site quashing the notion that there are only three or four conditional constructions.
– Shoe
Apr 5 at 19:22