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Violin - Can double stops be played when the strings are not next to each other?
How does the violin strings' gauge affect the instrument's functionalityHow are double stops / divisi indicated in violin scores?Double stopping pizzicato on the violinOther strings vibrating when playing pizzicato on ViolinDo I have to replace all violin strings when E string broke?violin other string vibrates loudly when playing another stringWhat violin strings have the lowest tension without a bad effect on sound quality?How slur/legato score notation should be played on violin: with hammer and pull-of or the other way?Double stops in ABRSM Grade 7 violinIs this double stop playable on violin?
Suppose I wanted to play a double stop on the violin. The double stop played the G string and the A string simultaneously. Is this possible? Can you play a double stop on two non-adjacent strings?
strings violin bowing double-stops
add a comment |
Suppose I wanted to play a double stop on the violin. The double stop played the G string and the A string simultaneously. Is this possible? Can you play a double stop on two non-adjacent strings?
strings violin bowing double-stops
6
Why this was downvoted? It seems an entirely reasonable and practical question.
– replete
yesterday
4
Probably by someone who thought he was clever enough to know that it was impossible. Wrong! And not good enough to explain.
– Tim
yesterday
add a comment |
Suppose I wanted to play a double stop on the violin. The double stop played the G string and the A string simultaneously. Is this possible? Can you play a double stop on two non-adjacent strings?
strings violin bowing double-stops
Suppose I wanted to play a double stop on the violin. The double stop played the G string and the A string simultaneously. Is this possible? Can you play a double stop on two non-adjacent strings?
strings violin bowing double-stops
strings violin bowing double-stops
asked 2 days ago
XilpexXilpex
582217
582217
6
Why this was downvoted? It seems an entirely reasonable and practical question.
– replete
yesterday
4
Probably by someone who thought he was clever enough to know that it was impossible. Wrong! And not good enough to explain.
– Tim
yesterday
add a comment |
6
Why this was downvoted? It seems an entirely reasonable and practical question.
– replete
yesterday
4
Probably by someone who thought he was clever enough to know that it was impossible. Wrong! And not good enough to explain.
– Tim
yesterday
6
6
Why this was downvoted? It seems an entirely reasonable and practical question.
– replete
yesterday
Why this was downvoted? It seems an entirely reasonable and practical question.
– replete
yesterday
4
4
Probably by someone who thought he was clever enough to know that it was impossible. Wrong! And not good enough to explain.
– Tim
yesterday
Probably by someone who thought he was clever enough to know that it was impossible. Wrong! And not good enough to explain.
– Tim
yesterday
add a comment |
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
Just to add to the other answers, there's this unusual technique where you loosen the hair of the bow and play with the stick of the bow under the violin, but the hair wrapping over it. This allows you to play three or four strings simultaneously.
To play only two non-adjacent strings, I guess you'd need to somehow mute the string(s) in between. I never played violin so I don't know how feasible that would be.
New contributor
2
Muting strings in between, like you might do on guitar, is not really possible with bowed strings. The muted string would produce a horrible scratching noise.
– leftaroundabout
16 hours ago
add a comment |
As Jomiddnz points out, there's pizzicato. You could also bow one string and pluck another at the same time.
But if you want both notes played with the bow, and don't want the bow to catch the strings in between, the only way is by playing on the top and bottom strings with the bow under the strings. Here's an example (OK, the only example I've found): the last few bars of Flausino Vale's variations on Franz Lehár's Paganini. (Note also the combination of an arco note and pizzicato open strings.)
If you don't want to use that extraordinary technique, then, no.
Are there several bars of rest notated while the player changes bow positions..?
– Tim
yesterday
No, only that double-caesura sign in b.112. The piece is for solo violin so the player is at liberty to take their time over this awkward change.
– Rosie F
yesterday
3
Haha, Flausino Vale was definitely a show-off! :)
– Creynders
yesterday
add a comment |
Just to be pedantic, you could pretty easily bow the open G and A strings together by holding the D string depressed just above the bridge.
add a comment |
No. It is physically impossible unless you play it pizzicato.
add a comment |
Absolutely, but it's harder on a modern instrument
As RedLitYogi says, the convex bridge (not the fingerboard!) affects your ability to play more than two adjacent strings. A tight bow means you can only normally hit two notes at once.
Historically this was not the case though. Baroque instruments had a shallower curve to the bridge, and they also used lower tension on the bow. As a result, they were perfectly capable of treble-stopping as an advanced technique.
Its still possible with a modern instrument and bow. You need to apply extreme pressure to the bow though, which makes it impossible for anything other than forte or fortissimo.
More normally, you'd simply pivot over the D string to hit the A in a single move, resulting in an arpeggiated chord. It's worth noting that even on instruments which can play true chords (e.g guitar or piano), arpeggiated chords are often used for expression, so this does not sound in any way unusual.
These techniques all assume playing three notes at once, of course. To avoid playing the "middle" string and only sound the outer two, damp the unwanted string by touching it lightly with the fleshy part of a finger.
I'm not a string player so may be misunderstanding your answer, but it seems to me that you're answering a different question: whether it's possible to play treble-stops. Are you saying double stops were playable on these earlier instruments with non-adjacent strings, that is, without sounding an intervening string?
– replete
4 hours ago
@replete Good point - I need to make that clearer.
– Graham
3 hours ago
add a comment |
You most likely know this, but just in case: the instruments of the string choir (violin, viola, cello, bass violin) all have convex fingerboards. This makes it much easier to bow a single string than it would be if the strings were all on one plane as they are in guitars and lutes, etc. That is why the answer given in 13 seems to be the best. (Paganini must really have been a show-off - this is akin to Hendrix playing behind his back, etc...)
New contributor
1
It not only makes it easier to bow a single string, it's what makes it possible at all.
– leftaroundabout
12 hours ago
very true. "makes it easier" is an understatement.
– RedLitYogi
56 mins ago
add a comment |
If you used two bows you could achieve the result. It would be rather tricky to hold them both, and only short strokes would be viable without some extremely dexterous right-hand work (or perhaps a bowing action which moves the bow along the strings more than across them - which wouldn't sound great), but would be more versatile than the under-the-strings solution, more musical than the high-pressure solution. A specialised bowing device (perhaps like a couple of EBows) might be an option too, depending on how determined you are.
add a comment |
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7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Just to add to the other answers, there's this unusual technique where you loosen the hair of the bow and play with the stick of the bow under the violin, but the hair wrapping over it. This allows you to play three or four strings simultaneously.
To play only two non-adjacent strings, I guess you'd need to somehow mute the string(s) in between. I never played violin so I don't know how feasible that would be.
New contributor
2
Muting strings in between, like you might do on guitar, is not really possible with bowed strings. The muted string would produce a horrible scratching noise.
– leftaroundabout
16 hours ago
add a comment |
Just to add to the other answers, there's this unusual technique where you loosen the hair of the bow and play with the stick of the bow under the violin, but the hair wrapping over it. This allows you to play three or four strings simultaneously.
To play only two non-adjacent strings, I guess you'd need to somehow mute the string(s) in between. I never played violin so I don't know how feasible that would be.
New contributor
2
Muting strings in between, like you might do on guitar, is not really possible with bowed strings. The muted string would produce a horrible scratching noise.
– leftaroundabout
16 hours ago
add a comment |
Just to add to the other answers, there's this unusual technique where you loosen the hair of the bow and play with the stick of the bow under the violin, but the hair wrapping over it. This allows you to play three or four strings simultaneously.
To play only two non-adjacent strings, I guess you'd need to somehow mute the string(s) in between. I never played violin so I don't know how feasible that would be.
New contributor
Just to add to the other answers, there's this unusual technique where you loosen the hair of the bow and play with the stick of the bow under the violin, but the hair wrapping over it. This allows you to play three or four strings simultaneously.
To play only two non-adjacent strings, I guess you'd need to somehow mute the string(s) in between. I never played violin so I don't know how feasible that would be.
New contributor
edited yesterday
New contributor
answered yesterday
ablabl
1963
1963
New contributor
New contributor
2
Muting strings in between, like you might do on guitar, is not really possible with bowed strings. The muted string would produce a horrible scratching noise.
– leftaroundabout
16 hours ago
add a comment |
2
Muting strings in between, like you might do on guitar, is not really possible with bowed strings. The muted string would produce a horrible scratching noise.
– leftaroundabout
16 hours ago
2
2
Muting strings in between, like you might do on guitar, is not really possible with bowed strings. The muted string would produce a horrible scratching noise.
– leftaroundabout
16 hours ago
Muting strings in between, like you might do on guitar, is not really possible with bowed strings. The muted string would produce a horrible scratching noise.
– leftaroundabout
16 hours ago
add a comment |
As Jomiddnz points out, there's pizzicato. You could also bow one string and pluck another at the same time.
But if you want both notes played with the bow, and don't want the bow to catch the strings in between, the only way is by playing on the top and bottom strings with the bow under the strings. Here's an example (OK, the only example I've found): the last few bars of Flausino Vale's variations on Franz Lehár's Paganini. (Note also the combination of an arco note and pizzicato open strings.)
If you don't want to use that extraordinary technique, then, no.
Are there several bars of rest notated while the player changes bow positions..?
– Tim
yesterday
No, only that double-caesura sign in b.112. The piece is for solo violin so the player is at liberty to take their time over this awkward change.
– Rosie F
yesterday
3
Haha, Flausino Vale was definitely a show-off! :)
– Creynders
yesterday
add a comment |
As Jomiddnz points out, there's pizzicato. You could also bow one string and pluck another at the same time.
But if you want both notes played with the bow, and don't want the bow to catch the strings in between, the only way is by playing on the top and bottom strings with the bow under the strings. Here's an example (OK, the only example I've found): the last few bars of Flausino Vale's variations on Franz Lehár's Paganini. (Note also the combination of an arco note and pizzicato open strings.)
If you don't want to use that extraordinary technique, then, no.
Are there several bars of rest notated while the player changes bow positions..?
– Tim
yesterday
No, only that double-caesura sign in b.112. The piece is for solo violin so the player is at liberty to take their time over this awkward change.
– Rosie F
yesterday
3
Haha, Flausino Vale was definitely a show-off! :)
– Creynders
yesterday
add a comment |
As Jomiddnz points out, there's pizzicato. You could also bow one string and pluck another at the same time.
But if you want both notes played with the bow, and don't want the bow to catch the strings in between, the only way is by playing on the top and bottom strings with the bow under the strings. Here's an example (OK, the only example I've found): the last few bars of Flausino Vale's variations on Franz Lehár's Paganini. (Note also the combination of an arco note and pizzicato open strings.)
If you don't want to use that extraordinary technique, then, no.
As Jomiddnz points out, there's pizzicato. You could also bow one string and pluck another at the same time.
But if you want both notes played with the bow, and don't want the bow to catch the strings in between, the only way is by playing on the top and bottom strings with the bow under the strings. Here's an example (OK, the only example I've found): the last few bars of Flausino Vale's variations on Franz Lehár's Paganini. (Note also the combination of an arco note and pizzicato open strings.)
If you don't want to use that extraordinary technique, then, no.
answered yesterday
Rosie FRosie F
1,401314
1,401314
Are there several bars of rest notated while the player changes bow positions..?
– Tim
yesterday
No, only that double-caesura sign in b.112. The piece is for solo violin so the player is at liberty to take their time over this awkward change.
– Rosie F
yesterday
3
Haha, Flausino Vale was definitely a show-off! :)
– Creynders
yesterday
add a comment |
Are there several bars of rest notated while the player changes bow positions..?
– Tim
yesterday
No, only that double-caesura sign in b.112. The piece is for solo violin so the player is at liberty to take their time over this awkward change.
– Rosie F
yesterday
3
Haha, Flausino Vale was definitely a show-off! :)
– Creynders
yesterday
Are there several bars of rest notated while the player changes bow positions..?
– Tim
yesterday
Are there several bars of rest notated while the player changes bow positions..?
– Tim
yesterday
No, only that double-caesura sign in b.112. The piece is for solo violin so the player is at liberty to take their time over this awkward change.
– Rosie F
yesterday
No, only that double-caesura sign in b.112. The piece is for solo violin so the player is at liberty to take their time over this awkward change.
– Rosie F
yesterday
3
3
Haha, Flausino Vale was definitely a show-off! :)
– Creynders
yesterday
Haha, Flausino Vale was definitely a show-off! :)
– Creynders
yesterday
add a comment |
Just to be pedantic, you could pretty easily bow the open G and A strings together by holding the D string depressed just above the bridge.
add a comment |
Just to be pedantic, you could pretty easily bow the open G and A strings together by holding the D string depressed just above the bridge.
add a comment |
Just to be pedantic, you could pretty easily bow the open G and A strings together by holding the D string depressed just above the bridge.
Just to be pedantic, you could pretty easily bow the open G and A strings together by holding the D string depressed just above the bridge.
answered yesterday
Scott WallaceScott Wallace
4,307916
4,307916
add a comment |
add a comment |
No. It is physically impossible unless you play it pizzicato.
add a comment |
No. It is physically impossible unless you play it pizzicato.
add a comment |
No. It is physically impossible unless you play it pizzicato.
No. It is physically impossible unless you play it pizzicato.
answered 2 days ago
JomiddnzJomiddnz
2,295510
2,295510
add a comment |
add a comment |
Absolutely, but it's harder on a modern instrument
As RedLitYogi says, the convex bridge (not the fingerboard!) affects your ability to play more than two adjacent strings. A tight bow means you can only normally hit two notes at once.
Historically this was not the case though. Baroque instruments had a shallower curve to the bridge, and they also used lower tension on the bow. As a result, they were perfectly capable of treble-stopping as an advanced technique.
Its still possible with a modern instrument and bow. You need to apply extreme pressure to the bow though, which makes it impossible for anything other than forte or fortissimo.
More normally, you'd simply pivot over the D string to hit the A in a single move, resulting in an arpeggiated chord. It's worth noting that even on instruments which can play true chords (e.g guitar or piano), arpeggiated chords are often used for expression, so this does not sound in any way unusual.
These techniques all assume playing three notes at once, of course. To avoid playing the "middle" string and only sound the outer two, damp the unwanted string by touching it lightly with the fleshy part of a finger.
I'm not a string player so may be misunderstanding your answer, but it seems to me that you're answering a different question: whether it's possible to play treble-stops. Are you saying double stops were playable on these earlier instruments with non-adjacent strings, that is, without sounding an intervening string?
– replete
4 hours ago
@replete Good point - I need to make that clearer.
– Graham
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Absolutely, but it's harder on a modern instrument
As RedLitYogi says, the convex bridge (not the fingerboard!) affects your ability to play more than two adjacent strings. A tight bow means you can only normally hit two notes at once.
Historically this was not the case though. Baroque instruments had a shallower curve to the bridge, and they also used lower tension on the bow. As a result, they were perfectly capable of treble-stopping as an advanced technique.
Its still possible with a modern instrument and bow. You need to apply extreme pressure to the bow though, which makes it impossible for anything other than forte or fortissimo.
More normally, you'd simply pivot over the D string to hit the A in a single move, resulting in an arpeggiated chord. It's worth noting that even on instruments which can play true chords (e.g guitar or piano), arpeggiated chords are often used for expression, so this does not sound in any way unusual.
These techniques all assume playing three notes at once, of course. To avoid playing the "middle" string and only sound the outer two, damp the unwanted string by touching it lightly with the fleshy part of a finger.
I'm not a string player so may be misunderstanding your answer, but it seems to me that you're answering a different question: whether it's possible to play treble-stops. Are you saying double stops were playable on these earlier instruments with non-adjacent strings, that is, without sounding an intervening string?
– replete
4 hours ago
@replete Good point - I need to make that clearer.
– Graham
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Absolutely, but it's harder on a modern instrument
As RedLitYogi says, the convex bridge (not the fingerboard!) affects your ability to play more than two adjacent strings. A tight bow means you can only normally hit two notes at once.
Historically this was not the case though. Baroque instruments had a shallower curve to the bridge, and they also used lower tension on the bow. As a result, they were perfectly capable of treble-stopping as an advanced technique.
Its still possible with a modern instrument and bow. You need to apply extreme pressure to the bow though, which makes it impossible for anything other than forte or fortissimo.
More normally, you'd simply pivot over the D string to hit the A in a single move, resulting in an arpeggiated chord. It's worth noting that even on instruments which can play true chords (e.g guitar or piano), arpeggiated chords are often used for expression, so this does not sound in any way unusual.
These techniques all assume playing three notes at once, of course. To avoid playing the "middle" string and only sound the outer two, damp the unwanted string by touching it lightly with the fleshy part of a finger.
Absolutely, but it's harder on a modern instrument
As RedLitYogi says, the convex bridge (not the fingerboard!) affects your ability to play more than two adjacent strings. A tight bow means you can only normally hit two notes at once.
Historically this was not the case though. Baroque instruments had a shallower curve to the bridge, and they also used lower tension on the bow. As a result, they were perfectly capable of treble-stopping as an advanced technique.
Its still possible with a modern instrument and bow. You need to apply extreme pressure to the bow though, which makes it impossible for anything other than forte or fortissimo.
More normally, you'd simply pivot over the D string to hit the A in a single move, resulting in an arpeggiated chord. It's worth noting that even on instruments which can play true chords (e.g guitar or piano), arpeggiated chords are often used for expression, so this does not sound in any way unusual.
These techniques all assume playing three notes at once, of course. To avoid playing the "middle" string and only sound the outer two, damp the unwanted string by touching it lightly with the fleshy part of a finger.
edited 3 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
GrahamGraham
1,767413
1,767413
I'm not a string player so may be misunderstanding your answer, but it seems to me that you're answering a different question: whether it's possible to play treble-stops. Are you saying double stops were playable on these earlier instruments with non-adjacent strings, that is, without sounding an intervening string?
– replete
4 hours ago
@replete Good point - I need to make that clearer.
– Graham
3 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm not a string player so may be misunderstanding your answer, but it seems to me that you're answering a different question: whether it's possible to play treble-stops. Are you saying double stops were playable on these earlier instruments with non-adjacent strings, that is, without sounding an intervening string?
– replete
4 hours ago
@replete Good point - I need to make that clearer.
– Graham
3 hours ago
I'm not a string player so may be misunderstanding your answer, but it seems to me that you're answering a different question: whether it's possible to play treble-stops. Are you saying double stops were playable on these earlier instruments with non-adjacent strings, that is, without sounding an intervening string?
– replete
4 hours ago
I'm not a string player so may be misunderstanding your answer, but it seems to me that you're answering a different question: whether it's possible to play treble-stops. Are you saying double stops were playable on these earlier instruments with non-adjacent strings, that is, without sounding an intervening string?
– replete
4 hours ago
@replete Good point - I need to make that clearer.
– Graham
3 hours ago
@replete Good point - I need to make that clearer.
– Graham
3 hours ago
add a comment |
You most likely know this, but just in case: the instruments of the string choir (violin, viola, cello, bass violin) all have convex fingerboards. This makes it much easier to bow a single string than it would be if the strings were all on one plane as they are in guitars and lutes, etc. That is why the answer given in 13 seems to be the best. (Paganini must really have been a show-off - this is akin to Hendrix playing behind his back, etc...)
New contributor
1
It not only makes it easier to bow a single string, it's what makes it possible at all.
– leftaroundabout
12 hours ago
very true. "makes it easier" is an understatement.
– RedLitYogi
56 mins ago
add a comment |
You most likely know this, but just in case: the instruments of the string choir (violin, viola, cello, bass violin) all have convex fingerboards. This makes it much easier to bow a single string than it would be if the strings were all on one plane as they are in guitars and lutes, etc. That is why the answer given in 13 seems to be the best. (Paganini must really have been a show-off - this is akin to Hendrix playing behind his back, etc...)
New contributor
1
It not only makes it easier to bow a single string, it's what makes it possible at all.
– leftaroundabout
12 hours ago
very true. "makes it easier" is an understatement.
– RedLitYogi
56 mins ago
add a comment |
You most likely know this, but just in case: the instruments of the string choir (violin, viola, cello, bass violin) all have convex fingerboards. This makes it much easier to bow a single string than it would be if the strings were all on one plane as they are in guitars and lutes, etc. That is why the answer given in 13 seems to be the best. (Paganini must really have been a show-off - this is akin to Hendrix playing behind his back, etc...)
New contributor
You most likely know this, but just in case: the instruments of the string choir (violin, viola, cello, bass violin) all have convex fingerboards. This makes it much easier to bow a single string than it would be if the strings were all on one plane as they are in guitars and lutes, etc. That is why the answer given in 13 seems to be the best. (Paganini must really have been a show-off - this is akin to Hendrix playing behind his back, etc...)
New contributor
New contributor
answered 14 hours ago
RedLitYogiRedLitYogi
211
211
New contributor
New contributor
1
It not only makes it easier to bow a single string, it's what makes it possible at all.
– leftaroundabout
12 hours ago
very true. "makes it easier" is an understatement.
– RedLitYogi
56 mins ago
add a comment |
1
It not only makes it easier to bow a single string, it's what makes it possible at all.
– leftaroundabout
12 hours ago
very true. "makes it easier" is an understatement.
– RedLitYogi
56 mins ago
1
1
It not only makes it easier to bow a single string, it's what makes it possible at all.
– leftaroundabout
12 hours ago
It not only makes it easier to bow a single string, it's what makes it possible at all.
– leftaroundabout
12 hours ago
very true. "makes it easier" is an understatement.
– RedLitYogi
56 mins ago
very true. "makes it easier" is an understatement.
– RedLitYogi
56 mins ago
add a comment |
If you used two bows you could achieve the result. It would be rather tricky to hold them both, and only short strokes would be viable without some extremely dexterous right-hand work (or perhaps a bowing action which moves the bow along the strings more than across them - which wouldn't sound great), but would be more versatile than the under-the-strings solution, more musical than the high-pressure solution. A specialised bowing device (perhaps like a couple of EBows) might be an option too, depending on how determined you are.
add a comment |
If you used two bows you could achieve the result. It would be rather tricky to hold them both, and only short strokes would be viable without some extremely dexterous right-hand work (or perhaps a bowing action which moves the bow along the strings more than across them - which wouldn't sound great), but would be more versatile than the under-the-strings solution, more musical than the high-pressure solution. A specialised bowing device (perhaps like a couple of EBows) might be an option too, depending on how determined you are.
add a comment |
If you used two bows you could achieve the result. It would be rather tricky to hold them both, and only short strokes would be viable without some extremely dexterous right-hand work (or perhaps a bowing action which moves the bow along the strings more than across them - which wouldn't sound great), but would be more versatile than the under-the-strings solution, more musical than the high-pressure solution. A specialised bowing device (perhaps like a couple of EBows) might be an option too, depending on how determined you are.
If you used two bows you could achieve the result. It would be rather tricky to hold them both, and only short strokes would be viable without some extremely dexterous right-hand work (or perhaps a bowing action which moves the bow along the strings more than across them - which wouldn't sound great), but would be more versatile than the under-the-strings solution, more musical than the high-pressure solution. A specialised bowing device (perhaps like a couple of EBows) might be an option too, depending on how determined you are.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 2 hours ago
OutstandingBillOutstandingBill
25316
25316
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add a comment |
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6
Why this was downvoted? It seems an entirely reasonable and practical question.
– replete
yesterday
4
Probably by someone who thought he was clever enough to know that it was impossible. Wrong! And not good enough to explain.
– Tim
yesterday