Bacteria contamination inside a thermos bottleCan I sous-vide meat (at a temperature between 40ºF and 140ºF) for more than four hours?How long is coffee with creamer added safe in a thermos?Browning Beef in Beef Stew?How (or is) “low & slow” turkey safe?Browning beef for beef stew?Do Ice Wands have an advantage over a homemade solution?How long can a can a container of unopened hummus be left out?Why are vegetables often left unrefrigerated at the grocery store?6 hour cooling contradicts 2/4 hour food use ruleDehydrating fruit/veg, temperature, and safety
HP P840 HDD RAID 5 many strange drive failures
Do I need to be arrogant to get ahead?
Is honey really a supersaturated solution? Does heating to un-crystalize redissolve it or melt it?
Have the tides ever turned twice on any open problem?
PTIJ: Do Irish Jews have "the luck of the Irish"?
In Aliens, how many people were on LV-426 before the Marines arrived?
What can I do if I am asked to learn different programming languages very frequently?
World War I as a war of liberals against authoritarians?
Generic TVP tradeoffs?
Am I eligible for the Eurail Youth pass? I am 27.5 years old
Is it true that good novels will automatically sell themselves on Amazon (and so on) and there is no need for one to waste time promoting?
I seem to dance, I am not a dancer. Who am I?
PTIJ: Why do we blow Shofar on Rosh Hashana and use a Lulav on Sukkos?
Can a wizard cast a spell during their first turn of combat if they initiated combat by releasing a readied spell?
Pronounciation of the combination "st" in spanish accents
Fewest number of steps to reach 200 using special calculator
Do native speakers use "ultima" and "proxima" frequently in spoken English?
How difficult is it to simply disable/disengage the MCAS on Boeing 737 Max 8 & 9 Aircraft?
Relation between independence and correlation of uniform random variables
What favor did Moody owe Dumbledore?
Do I need to consider instance restrictions when showing a language is in P?
Recruiter wants very extensive technical details about all of my previous work
Geography in 3D perspective
Should I use acronyms in dialogues before telling the readers what it stands for in fiction?
Bacteria contamination inside a thermos bottle
Can I sous-vide meat (at a temperature between 40ºF and 140ºF) for more than four hours?How long is coffee with creamer added safe in a thermos?Browning Beef in Beef Stew?How (or is) “low & slow” turkey safe?Browning beef for beef stew?Do Ice Wands have an advantage over a homemade solution?How long can a can a container of unopened hummus be left out?Why are vegetables often left unrefrigerated at the grocery store?6 hour cooling contradicts 2/4 hour food use ruleDehydrating fruit/veg, temperature, and safety
Let's say that I have a pot of boiling stew.
I then pour this, still boiling, inside a thermos bottle, and close the lid right away.
Everything inside the bottle should be sterile at this point, due to the high temperature which will be maintained for over an hour, correct?
Let's say then that I let this sit for maybe 24h.
In this time frame, the temperature of the stew will fall in the danger zone between 60°C and 5°C, and stay there for hours and hours.
Usually, that would mean that the meat in the stew is no longer fit for consumption.
However, given that the content of the bottle was earlier sterile, would it still be safe?
Can bacteria contaminate the content trough the lid?
food-safety
asked yesterday
user73521user73521
261
New contributor
user73521 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
Let's say that I have a pot of boiling stew.
I then pour this, still boiling, inside a thermos bottle, and close the lid right away.
Everything inside the bottle should be sterile at this point, due to the high temperature which will be maintained for over an hour, correct?
Let's say then that I let this sit for maybe 24h.
In this time frame, the temperature of the stew will fall in the danger zone between 60°C and 5°C, and stay there for hours and hours.
Usually, that would mean that the meat in the stew is no longer fit for consumption.
However, given that the content of the bottle was earlier sterile, would it still be safe?
Can bacteria contaminate the content trough the lid?
food-safety
asked yesterday
user73521user73521
261
New contributor
user73521 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
Let's say that I have a pot of boiling stew.
I then pour this, still boiling, inside a thermos bottle, and close the lid right away.
Everything inside the bottle should be sterile at this point, due to the high temperature which will be maintained for over an hour, correct?
Let's say then that I let this sit for maybe 24h.
In this time frame, the temperature of the stew will fall in the danger zone between 60°C and 5°C, and stay there for hours and hours.
Usually, that would mean that the meat in the stew is no longer fit for consumption.
However, given that the content of the bottle was earlier sterile, would it still be safe?
Can bacteria contaminate the content trough the lid?
food-safety
asked yesterday
user73521user73521
261
New contributor
user73521 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Let's say that I have a pot of boiling stew.
I then pour this, still boiling, inside a thermos bottle, and close the lid right away.
Everything inside the bottle should be sterile at this point, due to the high temperature which will be maintained for over an hour, correct?
Let's say then that I let this sit for maybe 24h.
In this time frame, the temperature of the stew will fall in the danger zone between 60°C and 5°C, and stay there for hours and hours.
Usually, that would mean that the meat in the stew is no longer fit for consumption.
However, given that the content of the bottle was earlier sterile, would it still be safe?
Can bacteria contaminate the content trough the lid?
food-safety
food-safety
asked yesterday
user73521user73521
261
New contributor
user73521 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked yesterday
user73521user73521
261
New contributor
user73521 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked yesterday
user73521user73521
261
New contributor
user73521 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked yesterday
user73521user73521
261
asked yesterday
user73521user73521
261
261
New contributor
user73521 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
user73521 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
user73521 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
The assumption that it was sterile is wrong. Standard cooking leads to a reduction of bacteria to about log6, so 1 in 100 000 survives. Afterwards, these bacteria multiply exponentially in your soup, potentially achieving levels at which people can get sick.
Your logic will apply to canning. But it is known that the "fill the cooked food into an airtight closing container" is an unsafe canning method even for high acid foods, and a thermos bottle is not guaranteed to be closed airtight. If you want to can soup, you have to follow safe canning procedures, which include a restriction of the ingredients you can use, a restriction in the liquid/solid ratio, the prescription of proper containers, and a sufficiently long sterilization step in a pressure canner.
answered yesterday
rumtscho♦rumtscho
82.5k28191357
What makes this 1 in 100000 of bacteria able to survive in 100°C water for extended periods of time?
– Michael
yesterday
1
@Michael Humans shed about a million particles of biological material per hour, and many of those will be colonized by bacteria. In an ordinary kitchen environment, some of that material will have ended up in the thermos without ever having been in the stew.
– alephzero
yesterday
2
(a) A 6 log reduction means 1 in 1 000 000 survives. (b) A 6 log reduction of vegetative organisms is often called pasteurisation [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization ] (c) safe storage of low acid foods in the absence of air requires killling spores. See "Introduction for Consumers: A Snapshot" on page 3 of "The Bad Bug Book" [fda.gov/downloads/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/…
– user20637
yesterday
1
@alephzero that doesn't explain it though, even those bacteria added in from the air would cook inside the hot liquid in the thermos. Of course there are other concerns like spores and the container not being air-tight (as explained in the comment above and the answer).
– JJJ
yesterday
2
There is no explanation of "how", and it is possibly a different combination of causes for each individual bacterium. This is just a general property of biological systems for to their high complexity. Just like individual people have been known to survive over 6 minutes without oxygen in the brain, or to spontaneously heal from cancer. The same initial conditions lead to different outcomes in different individuals, and sometimes the outcome can be radically different.
– rumtscho♦
23 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "49"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
user73521 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fcooking.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f96941%2fbacteria-contamination-inside-a-thermos-bottle%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The assumption that it was sterile is wrong. Standard cooking leads to a reduction of bacteria to about log6, so 1 in 100 000 survives. Afterwards, these bacteria multiply exponentially in your soup, potentially achieving levels at which people can get sick.
Your logic will apply to canning. But it is known that the "fill the cooked food into an airtight closing container" is an unsafe canning method even for high acid foods, and a thermos bottle is not guaranteed to be closed airtight. If you want to can soup, you have to follow safe canning procedures, which include a restriction of the ingredients you can use, a restriction in the liquid/solid ratio, the prescription of proper containers, and a sufficiently long sterilization step in a pressure canner.
answered yesterday
rumtscho♦rumtscho
82.5k28191357
What makes this 1 in 100000 of bacteria able to survive in 100°C water for extended periods of time?
– Michael
yesterday
1
@Michael Humans shed about a million particles of biological material per hour, and many of those will be colonized by bacteria. In an ordinary kitchen environment, some of that material will have ended up in the thermos without ever having been in the stew.
– alephzero
yesterday
2
(a) A 6 log reduction means 1 in 1 000 000 survives. (b) A 6 log reduction of vegetative organisms is often called pasteurisation [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization ] (c) safe storage of low acid foods in the absence of air requires killling spores. See "Introduction for Consumers: A Snapshot" on page 3 of "The Bad Bug Book" [fda.gov/downloads/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/…
– user20637
yesterday
1
@alephzero that doesn't explain it though, even those bacteria added in from the air would cook inside the hot liquid in the thermos. Of course there are other concerns like spores and the container not being air-tight (as explained in the comment above and the answer).
– JJJ
yesterday
2
There is no explanation of "how", and it is possibly a different combination of causes for each individual bacterium. This is just a general property of biological systems for to their high complexity. Just like individual people have been known to survive over 6 minutes without oxygen in the brain, or to spontaneously heal from cancer. The same initial conditions lead to different outcomes in different individuals, and sometimes the outcome can be radically different.
– rumtscho♦
23 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
The assumption that it was sterile is wrong. Standard cooking leads to a reduction of bacteria to about log6, so 1 in 100 000 survives. Afterwards, these bacteria multiply exponentially in your soup, potentially achieving levels at which people can get sick.
Your logic will apply to canning. But it is known that the "fill the cooked food into an airtight closing container" is an unsafe canning method even for high acid foods, and a thermos bottle is not guaranteed to be closed airtight. If you want to can soup, you have to follow safe canning procedures, which include a restriction of the ingredients you can use, a restriction in the liquid/solid ratio, the prescription of proper containers, and a sufficiently long sterilization step in a pressure canner.
answered yesterday
rumtscho♦rumtscho
82.5k28191357
What makes this 1 in 100000 of bacteria able to survive in 100°C water for extended periods of time?
– Michael
yesterday
1
@Michael Humans shed about a million particles of biological material per hour, and many of those will be colonized by bacteria. In an ordinary kitchen environment, some of that material will have ended up in the thermos without ever having been in the stew.
– alephzero
yesterday
2
(a) A 6 log reduction means 1 in 1 000 000 survives. (b) A 6 log reduction of vegetative organisms is often called pasteurisation [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization ] (c) safe storage of low acid foods in the absence of air requires killling spores. See "Introduction for Consumers: A Snapshot" on page 3 of "The Bad Bug Book" [fda.gov/downloads/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/…
– user20637
yesterday
1
@alephzero that doesn't explain it though, even those bacteria added in from the air would cook inside the hot liquid in the thermos. Of course there are other concerns like spores and the container not being air-tight (as explained in the comment above and the answer).
– JJJ
yesterday
2
There is no explanation of "how", and it is possibly a different combination of causes for each individual bacterium. This is just a general property of biological systems for to their high complexity. Just like individual people have been known to survive over 6 minutes without oxygen in the brain, or to spontaneously heal from cancer. The same initial conditions lead to different outcomes in different individuals, and sometimes the outcome can be radically different.
– rumtscho♦
23 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
The assumption that it was sterile is wrong. Standard cooking leads to a reduction of bacteria to about log6, so 1 in 100 000 survives. Afterwards, these bacteria multiply exponentially in your soup, potentially achieving levels at which people can get sick.
Your logic will apply to canning. But it is known that the "fill the cooked food into an airtight closing container" is an unsafe canning method even for high acid foods, and a thermos bottle is not guaranteed to be closed airtight. If you want to can soup, you have to follow safe canning procedures, which include a restriction of the ingredients you can use, a restriction in the liquid/solid ratio, the prescription of proper containers, and a sufficiently long sterilization step in a pressure canner.
answered yesterday
rumtscho♦rumtscho
82.5k28191357
The assumption that it was sterile is wrong. Standard cooking leads to a reduction of bacteria to about log6, so 1 in 100 000 survives. Afterwards, these bacteria multiply exponentially in your soup, potentially achieving levels at which people can get sick.
Your logic will apply to canning. But it is known that the "fill the cooked food into an airtight closing container" is an unsafe canning method even for high acid foods, and a thermos bottle is not guaranteed to be closed airtight. If you want to can soup, you have to follow safe canning procedures, which include a restriction of the ingredients you can use, a restriction in the liquid/solid ratio, the prescription of proper containers, and a sufficiently long sterilization step in a pressure canner.
answered yesterday
rumtscho♦rumtscho
82.5k28191357
answered yesterday
rumtscho♦rumtscho
82.5k28191357
answered yesterday
rumtscho♦rumtscho
82.5k28191357
answered yesterday
rumtscho♦rumtscho
82.5k28191357
82.5k28191357
What makes this 1 in 100000 of bacteria able to survive in 100°C water for extended periods of time?
– Michael
yesterday
1
@Michael Humans shed about a million particles of biological material per hour, and many of those will be colonized by bacteria. In an ordinary kitchen environment, some of that material will have ended up in the thermos without ever having been in the stew.
– alephzero
yesterday
2
(a) A 6 log reduction means 1 in 1 000 000 survives. (b) A 6 log reduction of vegetative organisms is often called pasteurisation [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization ] (c) safe storage of low acid foods in the absence of air requires killling spores. See "Introduction for Consumers: A Snapshot" on page 3 of "The Bad Bug Book" [fda.gov/downloads/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/…
– user20637
yesterday
1
@alephzero that doesn't explain it though, even those bacteria added in from the air would cook inside the hot liquid in the thermos. Of course there are other concerns like spores and the container not being air-tight (as explained in the comment above and the answer).
– JJJ
yesterday
2
There is no explanation of "how", and it is possibly a different combination of causes for each individual bacterium. This is just a general property of biological systems for to their high complexity. Just like individual people have been known to survive over 6 minutes without oxygen in the brain, or to spontaneously heal from cancer. The same initial conditions lead to different outcomes in different individuals, and sometimes the outcome can be radically different.
– rumtscho♦
23 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
What makes this 1 in 100000 of bacteria able to survive in 100°C water for extended periods of time?
– Michael
yesterday
1
@Michael Humans shed about a million particles of biological material per hour, and many of those will be colonized by bacteria. In an ordinary kitchen environment, some of that material will have ended up in the thermos without ever having been in the stew.
– alephzero
yesterday
2
(a) A 6 log reduction means 1 in 1 000 000 survives. (b) A 6 log reduction of vegetative organisms is often called pasteurisation [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization ] (c) safe storage of low acid foods in the absence of air requires killling spores. See "Introduction for Consumers: A Snapshot" on page 3 of "The Bad Bug Book" [fda.gov/downloads/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/…
– user20637
yesterday
1
@alephzero that doesn't explain it though, even those bacteria added in from the air would cook inside the hot liquid in the thermos. Of course there are other concerns like spores and the container not being air-tight (as explained in the comment above and the answer).
– JJJ
yesterday
2
There is no explanation of "how", and it is possibly a different combination of causes for each individual bacterium. This is just a general property of biological systems for to their high complexity. Just like individual people have been known to survive over 6 minutes without oxygen in the brain, or to spontaneously heal from cancer. The same initial conditions lead to different outcomes in different individuals, and sometimes the outcome can be radically different.
– rumtscho♦
23 hours ago
What makes this 1 in 100000 of bacteria able to survive in 100°C water for extended periods of time?
– Michael
yesterday
What makes this 1 in 100000 of bacteria able to survive in 100°C water for extended periods of time?
– Michael
yesterday
1
1
@Michael Humans shed about a million particles of biological material per hour, and many of those will be colonized by bacteria. In an ordinary kitchen environment, some of that material will have ended up in the thermos without ever having been in the stew.
– alephzero
yesterday
@Michael Humans shed about a million particles of biological material per hour, and many of those will be colonized by bacteria. In an ordinary kitchen environment, some of that material will have ended up in the thermos without ever having been in the stew.
– alephzero
yesterday
2
2
(a) A 6 log reduction means 1 in 1 000 000 survives. (b) A 6 log reduction of vegetative organisms is often called pasteurisation [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization ] (c) safe storage of low acid foods in the absence of air requires killling spores. See "Introduction for Consumers: A Snapshot" on page 3 of "The Bad Bug Book" [fda.gov/downloads/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/…
– user20637
yesterday
(a) A 6 log reduction means 1 in 1 000 000 survives. (b) A 6 log reduction of vegetative organisms is often called pasteurisation [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization ] (c) safe storage of low acid foods in the absence of air requires killling spores. See "Introduction for Consumers: A Snapshot" on page 3 of "The Bad Bug Book" [fda.gov/downloads/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/…
– user20637
yesterday
1
1
@alephzero that doesn't explain it though, even those bacteria added in from the air would cook inside the hot liquid in the thermos. Of course there are other concerns like spores and the container not being air-tight (as explained in the comment above and the answer).
– JJJ
yesterday
@alephzero that doesn't explain it though, even those bacteria added in from the air would cook inside the hot liquid in the thermos. Of course there are other concerns like spores and the container not being air-tight (as explained in the comment above and the answer).
– JJJ
yesterday
2
2
There is no explanation of "how", and it is possibly a different combination of causes for each individual bacterium. This is just a general property of biological systems for to their high complexity. Just like individual people have been known to survive over 6 minutes without oxygen in the brain, or to spontaneously heal from cancer. The same initial conditions lead to different outcomes in different individuals, and sometimes the outcome can be radically different.
– rumtscho♦
23 hours ago
There is no explanation of "how", and it is possibly a different combination of causes for each individual bacterium. This is just a general property of biological systems for to their high complexity. Just like individual people have been known to survive over 6 minutes without oxygen in the brain, or to spontaneously heal from cancer. The same initial conditions lead to different outcomes in different individuals, and sometimes the outcome can be radically different.
– rumtscho♦
23 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
user73521 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user73521 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user73521 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user73521 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Seasoned Advice!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fcooking.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f96941%2fbacteria-contamination-inside-a-thermos-bottle%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
