Unbreakable Formation vs. Cry of the CarnariumCan an indestructible creature die by a combination of damage and -X/-X effects?Can a non-instant or sorcery ever have flashback?do creatures created after a “all creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn” instant get -1/-1 as well?What happens when I target an indestructible card with an “if that would die this turn, exile it instead” effect?Exalted trigger timingWhat happens when a non-token creature loses all abilities, is exiled, then returns?Does the spell cast with Yahenni's Expertise resolve before state-based effects are checked?What happens if Always Watching is destroyed mid-combat?MTG: Abilities lost when exiled?Under which controller does a stolen permanent come into play after being exiled?
Confusion about capacitors
Examples of non trivial equivalence relations , I mean equivalence relations without the expression " same ... as" in their definition?
How to stop co-workers from teasing me because I know Russian?
You look catfish vs You look like a catfish
Why is the origin of “threshold” uncertain?
Why does Bran Stark feel that Jon Snow "needs to know" about his lineage?
How to create an ad-hoc wireless network in Ubuntu
Why do TACANs not have a symbol for compulsory reporting on IFR Enroute Low Altitude charts?
Binary Numbers Magic Trick
Past Perfect Tense
Single Colour Mastermind Problem
Phrase for the opposite of "foolproof"
How to replace the "space symbol" (squat-u) in listings?
Does a creature that is immune to a condition still make a saving throw?
Where did the extra Pym particles come from in Endgame?
Why is current rating for multicore cable lower than single core with the same cross section?
What's the polite way to say "I need to urinate"?
Modify locally tikzset
A question regarding using the definite article
Illegal assignment from SObject to Contact
How can I get precisely a certain cubic cm by changing the following factors?
Confused by notation of atomic number Z and mass number A on periodic table of elements
What is the strongest case that can be made in favour of the UK regaining some control over fishing policy after Brexit?
Are some sounds more pleasing to the ear, like ㄴ and ㅁ?
Unbreakable Formation vs. Cry of the Carnarium
Can an indestructible creature die by a combination of damage and -X/-X effects?Can a non-instant or sorcery ever have flashback?do creatures created after a “all creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn” instant get -1/-1 as well?What happens when I target an indestructible card with an “if that would die this turn, exile it instead” effect?Exalted trigger timingWhat happens when a non-token creature loses all abilities, is exiled, then returns?Does the spell cast with Yahenni's Expertise resolve before state-based effects are checked?What happens if Always Watching is destroyed mid-combat?MTG: Abilities lost when exiled?Under which controller does a stolen permanent come into play after being exiled?
My opponent played Cry of the Carnarium in MTG Arena. I immediately played Unbreakable Formation after. The intended result was for my creatures to not die or get exiled, but they did. Shouldn't Unbreakable Formation resolve, granting me indestructible until end of turn?
magic-the-gathering mtg-arena
edited Apr 8 at 22:17
doppelgreener
16.5k861125
asked Apr 8 at 20:16
RonnieRonnie
412
add a comment |
My opponent played Cry of the Carnarium in MTG Arena. I immediately played Unbreakable Formation after. The intended result was for my creatures to not die or get exiled, but they did. Shouldn't Unbreakable Formation resolve, granting me indestructible until end of turn?
magic-the-gathering mtg-arena
edited Apr 8 at 22:17
doppelgreener
16.5k861125
asked Apr 8 at 20:16
RonnieRonnie
412
2
As discussed in the answers below, I think a lot of the confusion comes from the way MTG: arena displays loss of toughness. (+0/-2 is not equal to 2 damage, even though MTG:A displays them the same way)
– Malco
Apr 8 at 20:53
2
This is, why a Tragic Slip on Ulamog is always funny.
– Erik
Apr 9 at 9:52
add a comment |
My opponent played Cry of the Carnarium in MTG Arena. I immediately played Unbreakable Formation after. The intended result was for my creatures to not die or get exiled, but they did. Shouldn't Unbreakable Formation resolve, granting me indestructible until end of turn?
magic-the-gathering mtg-arena
edited Apr 8 at 22:17
doppelgreener
16.5k861125
asked Apr 8 at 20:16
RonnieRonnie
412
My opponent played Cry of the Carnarium in MTG Arena. I immediately played Unbreakable Formation after. The intended result was for my creatures to not die or get exiled, but they did. Shouldn't Unbreakable Formation resolve, granting me indestructible until end of turn?
magic-the-gathering mtg-arena
magic-the-gathering mtg-arena
edited Apr 8 at 22:17
doppelgreener
16.5k861125
asked Apr 8 at 20:16
RonnieRonnie
412
edited Apr 8 at 22:17
doppelgreener
16.5k861125
asked Apr 8 at 20:16
RonnieRonnie
412
edited Apr 8 at 22:17
doppelgreener
16.5k861125
edited Apr 8 at 22:17
doppelgreener
16.5k861125
edited Apr 8 at 22:17
doppelgreener
16.5k861125
16.5k861125
asked Apr 8 at 20:16
RonnieRonnie
412
asked Apr 8 at 20:16
RonnieRonnie
412
asked Apr 8 at 20:16
RonnieRonnie
412
412
2
As discussed in the answers below, I think a lot of the confusion comes from the way MTG: arena displays loss of toughness. (+0/-2 is not equal to 2 damage, even though MTG:A displays them the same way)
– Malco
Apr 8 at 20:53
2
This is, why a Tragic Slip on Ulamog is always funny.
– Erik
Apr 9 at 9:52
add a comment |
2
As discussed in the answers below, I think a lot of the confusion comes from the way MTG: arena displays loss of toughness. (+0/-2 is not equal to 2 damage, even though MTG:A displays them the same way)
– Malco
Apr 8 at 20:53
2
This is, why a Tragic Slip on Ulamog is always funny.
– Erik
Apr 9 at 9:52
2
2
As discussed in the answers below, I think a lot of the confusion comes from the way MTG: arena displays loss of toughness. (+0/-2 is not equal to 2 damage, even though MTG:A displays them the same way)
– Malco
Apr 8 at 20:53
As discussed in the answers below, I think a lot of the confusion comes from the way MTG: arena displays loss of toughness. (+0/-2 is not equal to 2 damage, even though MTG:A displays them the same way)
– Malco
Apr 8 at 20:53
2
2
This is, why a Tragic Slip on Ulamog is always funny.
– Erik
Apr 9 at 9:52
This is, why a Tragic Slip on Ulamog is always funny.
– Erik
Apr 9 at 9:52
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
The card Unbreakable Formation will not generally save your creatures from dying from Cry of the Carnarium, because the ability Indestructible does not save creatures from dying from toughness loss.
The ability Indestructible is defined in rule 702.12b:
A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed. Such permanents aren't destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).
The rule it references, 704.5g, is part of the State-based action rules:
If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
The previous rule, 704.5f, says this:
If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it's put into its owner's graveyard. Regeneration can't replace this event.
As you can see, if a creature takes damage greater than or equal to its toughness, it is "destroyed", so Indestructible can stop it. But if a creature loses all of its toughness, it is just put into the graveyard, so Indestructible doesn't do anything about that.
Magic Arena displays damage the same way it displays toughness loss, but they are not the same thing.
answered Apr 8 at 20:44
murgatroid99♦murgatroid99
48.6k7122205
Empathising murgatroid’s damage statement: Damage in Magic is not subtracted from a creature’s toughness at all. It may “appear” to do so in Arena’s display, but it calculates it correctly even if it’s visually misleading. Damage is tracked separately on a creature as a totally different value than it’s toughness. When that damage is equal or greater to a creature's toughness it becomes "Lethal" and the creature is then destroyed (baring other effects). -X/-X values actually reduce toughness (as stated above).
– L.P.
Apr 11 at 20:20
add a comment |
Indestructible does not save a creature from dying due to having 0 toughness. It only prevents creatures from being destroyed.
702.12. Indestructible
702.12a Indestructible is a static ability.
702.12b A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed. Such permanents aren't destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).
Dying as a result of having 0 toughness is not being destroyed. A creature with 0 toughness dies because of this state-based action:
704.5f If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it's put into its owner's graveyard. Regeneration can't replace this event.
Also see this definition of destroyed in the rules:
701.7. Destroy
701.7a To destroy a permanent, move it from the battlefield to its owner's graveyard.
701.7b The only ways a permanent can be destroyed are as a result of an effect that uses the word "destroy" or as a result of the state-based actions that check for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g) or damage from a source with deathtouch (see rule 704.5h). If a permanent is put into its owner's graveyard for any other reason, it hasn't been "destroyed."
Similarly, you cannot use regeneration to prevent a creature from dying this way.
answered Apr 8 at 20:43
GendoIkariGendoIkari
45.1k396176
add a comment |
Unbreakable Formation did make your creatures indestructible. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to save them.
"Indestructible" means that lethal damage and 'destroy' effects won't destroy your creatures. However, if a creature had zero toughness it dies as a state-based-effect, and that isn't prevented by indestructible. Cry of the Carnarium reduces the power and toughness of your creatures, dodging indestructible.
Arena confuses this by showing damage as if it was reducing the toughness of the creature, but in actuality the effects are distinct. A 2/2 with two damage still has 2 toughness, but a 2/2 with -2/-2 has 0 toughness.
(Technically speaking, death by lethal damage is also a state-based-effect, but it's one that is specifically protected against by indestructible. )
answered Apr 8 at 20:42
Arcanist LupusArcanist Lupus
4,5051824
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "147"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fboardgames.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f45782%2funbreakable-formation-vs-cry-of-the-carnarium%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The card Unbreakable Formation will not generally save your creatures from dying from Cry of the Carnarium, because the ability Indestructible does not save creatures from dying from toughness loss.
The ability Indestructible is defined in rule 702.12b:
A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed. Such permanents aren't destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).
The rule it references, 704.5g, is part of the State-based action rules:
If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
The previous rule, 704.5f, says this:
If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it's put into its owner's graveyard. Regeneration can't replace this event.
As you can see, if a creature takes damage greater than or equal to its toughness, it is "destroyed", so Indestructible can stop it. But if a creature loses all of its toughness, it is just put into the graveyard, so Indestructible doesn't do anything about that.
Magic Arena displays damage the same way it displays toughness loss, but they are not the same thing.
answered Apr 8 at 20:44
murgatroid99♦murgatroid99
48.6k7122205
Empathising murgatroid’s damage statement: Damage in Magic is not subtracted from a creature’s toughness at all. It may “appear” to do so in Arena’s display, but it calculates it correctly even if it’s visually misleading. Damage is tracked separately on a creature as a totally different value than it’s toughness. When that damage is equal or greater to a creature's toughness it becomes "Lethal" and the creature is then destroyed (baring other effects). -X/-X values actually reduce toughness (as stated above).
– L.P.
Apr 11 at 20:20
add a comment |
The card Unbreakable Formation will not generally save your creatures from dying from Cry of the Carnarium, because the ability Indestructible does not save creatures from dying from toughness loss.
The ability Indestructible is defined in rule 702.12b:
A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed. Such permanents aren't destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).
The rule it references, 704.5g, is part of the State-based action rules:
If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
The previous rule, 704.5f, says this:
If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it's put into its owner's graveyard. Regeneration can't replace this event.
As you can see, if a creature takes damage greater than or equal to its toughness, it is "destroyed", so Indestructible can stop it. But if a creature loses all of its toughness, it is just put into the graveyard, so Indestructible doesn't do anything about that.
Magic Arena displays damage the same way it displays toughness loss, but they are not the same thing.
answered Apr 8 at 20:44
murgatroid99♦murgatroid99
48.6k7122205
Empathising murgatroid’s damage statement: Damage in Magic is not subtracted from a creature’s toughness at all. It may “appear” to do so in Arena’s display, but it calculates it correctly even if it’s visually misleading. Damage is tracked separately on a creature as a totally different value than it’s toughness. When that damage is equal or greater to a creature's toughness it becomes "Lethal" and the creature is then destroyed (baring other effects). -X/-X values actually reduce toughness (as stated above).
– L.P.
Apr 11 at 20:20
add a comment |
The card Unbreakable Formation will not generally save your creatures from dying from Cry of the Carnarium, because the ability Indestructible does not save creatures from dying from toughness loss.
The ability Indestructible is defined in rule 702.12b:
A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed. Such permanents aren't destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).
The rule it references, 704.5g, is part of the State-based action rules:
If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
The previous rule, 704.5f, says this:
If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it's put into its owner's graveyard. Regeneration can't replace this event.
As you can see, if a creature takes damage greater than or equal to its toughness, it is "destroyed", so Indestructible can stop it. But if a creature loses all of its toughness, it is just put into the graveyard, so Indestructible doesn't do anything about that.
Magic Arena displays damage the same way it displays toughness loss, but they are not the same thing.
answered Apr 8 at 20:44
murgatroid99♦murgatroid99
48.6k7122205
The card Unbreakable Formation will not generally save your creatures from dying from Cry of the Carnarium, because the ability Indestructible does not save creatures from dying from toughness loss.
The ability Indestructible is defined in rule 702.12b:
A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed. Such permanents aren't destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).
The rule it references, 704.5g, is part of the State-based action rules:
If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
The previous rule, 704.5f, says this:
If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it's put into its owner's graveyard. Regeneration can't replace this event.
As you can see, if a creature takes damage greater than or equal to its toughness, it is "destroyed", so Indestructible can stop it. But if a creature loses all of its toughness, it is just put into the graveyard, so Indestructible doesn't do anything about that.
Magic Arena displays damage the same way it displays toughness loss, but they are not the same thing.
answered Apr 8 at 20:44
murgatroid99♦murgatroid99
48.6k7122205
answered Apr 8 at 20:44
murgatroid99♦murgatroid99
48.6k7122205
answered Apr 8 at 20:44
murgatroid99♦murgatroid99
48.6k7122205
answered Apr 8 at 20:44
murgatroid99♦murgatroid99
48.6k7122205
48.6k7122205
Empathising murgatroid’s damage statement: Damage in Magic is not subtracted from a creature’s toughness at all. It may “appear” to do so in Arena’s display, but it calculates it correctly even if it’s visually misleading. Damage is tracked separately on a creature as a totally different value than it’s toughness. When that damage is equal or greater to a creature's toughness it becomes "Lethal" and the creature is then destroyed (baring other effects). -X/-X values actually reduce toughness (as stated above).
– L.P.
Apr 11 at 20:20
add a comment |
Empathising murgatroid’s damage statement: Damage in Magic is not subtracted from a creature’s toughness at all. It may “appear” to do so in Arena’s display, but it calculates it correctly even if it’s visually misleading. Damage is tracked separately on a creature as a totally different value than it’s toughness. When that damage is equal or greater to a creature's toughness it becomes "Lethal" and the creature is then destroyed (baring other effects). -X/-X values actually reduce toughness (as stated above).
– L.P.
Apr 11 at 20:20
Empathising murgatroid’s damage statement: Damage in Magic is not subtracted from a creature’s toughness at all. It may “appear” to do so in Arena’s display, but it calculates it correctly even if it’s visually misleading. Damage is tracked separately on a creature as a totally different value than it’s toughness. When that damage is equal or greater to a creature's toughness it becomes "Lethal" and the creature is then destroyed (baring other effects). -X/-X values actually reduce toughness (as stated above).
– L.P.
Apr 11 at 20:20
Empathising murgatroid’s damage statement: Damage in Magic is not subtracted from a creature’s toughness at all. It may “appear” to do so in Arena’s display, but it calculates it correctly even if it’s visually misleading. Damage is tracked separately on a creature as a totally different value than it’s toughness. When that damage is equal or greater to a creature's toughness it becomes "Lethal" and the creature is then destroyed (baring other effects). -X/-X values actually reduce toughness (as stated above).
– L.P.
Apr 11 at 20:20
add a comment |
Indestructible does not save a creature from dying due to having 0 toughness. It only prevents creatures from being destroyed.
702.12. Indestructible
702.12a Indestructible is a static ability.
702.12b A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed. Such permanents aren't destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).
Dying as a result of having 0 toughness is not being destroyed. A creature with 0 toughness dies because of this state-based action:
704.5f If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it's put into its owner's graveyard. Regeneration can't replace this event.
Also see this definition of destroyed in the rules:
701.7. Destroy
701.7a To destroy a permanent, move it from the battlefield to its owner's graveyard.
701.7b The only ways a permanent can be destroyed are as a result of an effect that uses the word "destroy" or as a result of the state-based actions that check for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g) or damage from a source with deathtouch (see rule 704.5h). If a permanent is put into its owner's graveyard for any other reason, it hasn't been "destroyed."
Similarly, you cannot use regeneration to prevent a creature from dying this way.
answered Apr 8 at 20:43
GendoIkariGendoIkari
45.1k396176
add a comment |
Indestructible does not save a creature from dying due to having 0 toughness. It only prevents creatures from being destroyed.
702.12. Indestructible
702.12a Indestructible is a static ability.
702.12b A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed. Such permanents aren't destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).
Dying as a result of having 0 toughness is not being destroyed. A creature with 0 toughness dies because of this state-based action:
704.5f If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it's put into its owner's graveyard. Regeneration can't replace this event.
Also see this definition of destroyed in the rules:
701.7. Destroy
701.7a To destroy a permanent, move it from the battlefield to its owner's graveyard.
701.7b The only ways a permanent can be destroyed are as a result of an effect that uses the word "destroy" or as a result of the state-based actions that check for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g) or damage from a source with deathtouch (see rule 704.5h). If a permanent is put into its owner's graveyard for any other reason, it hasn't been "destroyed."
Similarly, you cannot use regeneration to prevent a creature from dying this way.
answered Apr 8 at 20:43
GendoIkariGendoIkari
45.1k396176
add a comment |
Indestructible does not save a creature from dying due to having 0 toughness. It only prevents creatures from being destroyed.
702.12. Indestructible
702.12a Indestructible is a static ability.
702.12b A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed. Such permanents aren't destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).
Dying as a result of having 0 toughness is not being destroyed. A creature with 0 toughness dies because of this state-based action:
704.5f If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it's put into its owner's graveyard. Regeneration can't replace this event.
Also see this definition of destroyed in the rules:
701.7. Destroy
701.7a To destroy a permanent, move it from the battlefield to its owner's graveyard.
701.7b The only ways a permanent can be destroyed are as a result of an effect that uses the word "destroy" or as a result of the state-based actions that check for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g) or damage from a source with deathtouch (see rule 704.5h). If a permanent is put into its owner's graveyard for any other reason, it hasn't been "destroyed."
Similarly, you cannot use regeneration to prevent a creature from dying this way.
answered Apr 8 at 20:43
GendoIkariGendoIkari
45.1k396176
Indestructible does not save a creature from dying due to having 0 toughness. It only prevents creatures from being destroyed.
702.12. Indestructible
702.12a Indestructible is a static ability.
702.12b A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed. Such permanents aren't destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).
Dying as a result of having 0 toughness is not being destroyed. A creature with 0 toughness dies because of this state-based action:
704.5f If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it's put into its owner's graveyard. Regeneration can't replace this event.
Also see this definition of destroyed in the rules:
701.7. Destroy
701.7a To destroy a permanent, move it from the battlefield to its owner's graveyard.
701.7b The only ways a permanent can be destroyed are as a result of an effect that uses the word "destroy" or as a result of the state-based actions that check for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g) or damage from a source with deathtouch (see rule 704.5h). If a permanent is put into its owner's graveyard for any other reason, it hasn't been "destroyed."
Similarly, you cannot use regeneration to prevent a creature from dying this way.
answered Apr 8 at 20:43
GendoIkariGendoIkari
45.1k396176
answered Apr 8 at 20:43
GendoIkariGendoIkari
45.1k396176
answered Apr 8 at 20:43
GendoIkariGendoIkari
45.1k396176
answered Apr 8 at 20:43
GendoIkariGendoIkari
45.1k396176
45.1k396176
add a comment |
add a comment |
Unbreakable Formation did make your creatures indestructible. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to save them.
"Indestructible" means that lethal damage and 'destroy' effects won't destroy your creatures. However, if a creature had zero toughness it dies as a state-based-effect, and that isn't prevented by indestructible. Cry of the Carnarium reduces the power and toughness of your creatures, dodging indestructible.
Arena confuses this by showing damage as if it was reducing the toughness of the creature, but in actuality the effects are distinct. A 2/2 with two damage still has 2 toughness, but a 2/2 with -2/-2 has 0 toughness.
(Technically speaking, death by lethal damage is also a state-based-effect, but it's one that is specifically protected against by indestructible. )
answered Apr 8 at 20:42
Arcanist LupusArcanist Lupus
4,5051824
add a comment |
Unbreakable Formation did make your creatures indestructible. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to save them.
"Indestructible" means that lethal damage and 'destroy' effects won't destroy your creatures. However, if a creature had zero toughness it dies as a state-based-effect, and that isn't prevented by indestructible. Cry of the Carnarium reduces the power and toughness of your creatures, dodging indestructible.
Arena confuses this by showing damage as if it was reducing the toughness of the creature, but in actuality the effects are distinct. A 2/2 with two damage still has 2 toughness, but a 2/2 with -2/-2 has 0 toughness.
(Technically speaking, death by lethal damage is also a state-based-effect, but it's one that is specifically protected against by indestructible. )
answered Apr 8 at 20:42
Arcanist LupusArcanist Lupus
4,5051824
add a comment |
Unbreakable Formation did make your creatures indestructible. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to save them.
"Indestructible" means that lethal damage and 'destroy' effects won't destroy your creatures. However, if a creature had zero toughness it dies as a state-based-effect, and that isn't prevented by indestructible. Cry of the Carnarium reduces the power and toughness of your creatures, dodging indestructible.
Arena confuses this by showing damage as if it was reducing the toughness of the creature, but in actuality the effects are distinct. A 2/2 with two damage still has 2 toughness, but a 2/2 with -2/-2 has 0 toughness.
(Technically speaking, death by lethal damage is also a state-based-effect, but it's one that is specifically protected against by indestructible. )
answered Apr 8 at 20:42
Arcanist LupusArcanist Lupus
4,5051824
Unbreakable Formation did make your creatures indestructible. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to save them.
"Indestructible" means that lethal damage and 'destroy' effects won't destroy your creatures. However, if a creature had zero toughness it dies as a state-based-effect, and that isn't prevented by indestructible. Cry of the Carnarium reduces the power and toughness of your creatures, dodging indestructible.
Arena confuses this by showing damage as if it was reducing the toughness of the creature, but in actuality the effects are distinct. A 2/2 with two damage still has 2 toughness, but a 2/2 with -2/-2 has 0 toughness.
(Technically speaking, death by lethal damage is also a state-based-effect, but it's one that is specifically protected against by indestructible. )
answered Apr 8 at 20:42
Arcanist LupusArcanist Lupus
4,5051824
answered Apr 8 at 20:42
Arcanist LupusArcanist Lupus
4,5051824
answered Apr 8 at 20:42
Arcanist LupusArcanist Lupus
4,5051824
answered Apr 8 at 20:42
Arcanist LupusArcanist Lupus
4,5051824
4,5051824
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Board & Card Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fboardgames.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f45782%2funbreakable-formation-vs-cry-of-the-carnarium%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
As discussed in the answers below, I think a lot of the confusion comes from the way MTG: arena displays loss of toughness. (+0/-2 is not equal to 2 damage, even though MTG:A displays them the same way)
– Malco
Apr 8 at 20:53
2
This is, why a Tragic Slip on Ulamog is always funny.
– Erik
Apr 9 at 9:52