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What does this shorthand mean?



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InShould I play in a concert band or orchestra?What does this symbol mean?Tutti & Solo notationWhy are time signatures not used in this score?How does one know if a score is notated well?Where do the double accidentals go in “theoretical” key signatures?Beautiful quote about “B durum”Timpani & Conga: Doit, Fall or is it something else and how is it performed?Why do Coda and Segno has symbols, while the jumps to them is always spelled with letters?Is divisi notation needed for brass or woodwind in an orchestra?










16















I was reading an article on the Internet and saw this notation:




3*3*3*3* – 4331 – tmp+3 – hp – cel/pno – cds (14/12/10/8/6)




Then, searching on Google, I could see that this is a shorthand for orchestra instrumentation. But even reading this Wikipedia article, I could not understand all the parts of this statement.



What do all of these things mean? Mainly the final parts...










share|improve this question




























    16















    I was reading an article on the Internet and saw this notation:




    3*3*3*3* – 4331 – tmp+3 – hp – cel/pno – cds (14/12/10/8/6)




    Then, searching on Google, I could see that this is a shorthand for orchestra instrumentation. But even reading this Wikipedia article, I could not understand all the parts of this statement.



    What do all of these things mean? Mainly the final parts...










    share|improve this question


























      16












      16








      16


      1






      I was reading an article on the Internet and saw this notation:




      3*3*3*3* – 4331 – tmp+3 – hp – cel/pno – cds (14/12/10/8/6)




      Then, searching on Google, I could see that this is a shorthand for orchestra instrumentation. But even reading this Wikipedia article, I could not understand all the parts of this statement.



      What do all of these things mean? Mainly the final parts...










      share|improve this question
















      I was reading an article on the Internet and saw this notation:




      3*3*3*3* – 4331 – tmp+3 – hp – cel/pno – cds (14/12/10/8/6)




      Then, searching on Google, I could see that this is a shorthand for orchestra instrumentation. But even reading this Wikipedia article, I could not understand all the parts of this statement.



      What do all of these things mean? Mainly the final parts...







      notation orchestra instrumentation






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Mar 28 at 19:50









      Richard

      44.8k7105193




      44.8k7105193










      asked Mar 28 at 18:02









      João PauloJoão Paulo

      29219




      29219




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          21














          I would recommend consulting the source where you found this. If it was a publishing company, they may have their own system of shorthand that will clarify this.



          Otherwise, this all seems relatively standard:




          • 3*3*3*3* indicates the wind grouping with three performers each: three flutes, three oboes, three clarinets, three bassoons. The asterisks indicate that one of the players is playing another instrument of that family; one flute is also playing piccolo, one bassoon is also playing contrabassoon, etc. Contrast this with 3d, where the third player is doubling on that instrument.


          • 4331 indicates a standard brass grouping of four horns, three trumpets, three trombones, and a tuba.


          • tmp+3 indicates a timpanist and three other percussionists.


          • hp indicates harp.


          • cel/pno indicates a score for celesta/piano.


          • (14/12/10/8/6) indicates the number of strings: 14 first violins, 12 second violins, 10 violas, 8 celli, and 6 double basses.

          My only confusion is with the designation cds before the last entry. My guess is that this indication is in another language—perhaps French?—and this tells us that the following numbers pertain to "strings" (cordes in French).






          share|improve this answer




















          • 7





            I believe the asterisks mean that the third player isn't playing the "normal" instrument, so probably one piccolo, one English horn, one alto or bass clarinet, and one contrabassoon. I think you're right about cds being French cordes.

            – phoog
            Mar 28 at 19:24







          • 2





            I think specifically "cel/pno" means "celesta or piano". It would be a little unusual to have both, though I imagine it's not unheard-of.

            – Darrel Hoffman
            Mar 28 at 21:01











          • I don't agree about cel/pno. I think it would normally be celesta and piano, but with one player taking both instruments (perfectly feasible if the instruments are never playing together and there is a little time to change seats).

            – David
            Mar 29 at 4:59







          • 1





            @Richard phoog is definitely right about the asterisks - I think it would be helpful if you included this in your answer. Also another remark: you will sometimes see something like 3d3*3d3* where d stands for doubling. So for the flutes, 3* means the third is playing piccolo, whereas 3d means the third is playing both flute and piccolo.

            – David
            Mar 29 at 5:01






          • 2





            Wouldn't the second 3* refer to oboes, and the third to clarinets? (Does it not follow standard score order?)

            – Ben I.
            Mar 29 at 13:00












          Your Answer








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          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          21














          I would recommend consulting the source where you found this. If it was a publishing company, they may have their own system of shorthand that will clarify this.



          Otherwise, this all seems relatively standard:




          • 3*3*3*3* indicates the wind grouping with three performers each: three flutes, three oboes, three clarinets, three bassoons. The asterisks indicate that one of the players is playing another instrument of that family; one flute is also playing piccolo, one bassoon is also playing contrabassoon, etc. Contrast this with 3d, where the third player is doubling on that instrument.


          • 4331 indicates a standard brass grouping of four horns, three trumpets, three trombones, and a tuba.


          • tmp+3 indicates a timpanist and three other percussionists.


          • hp indicates harp.


          • cel/pno indicates a score for celesta/piano.


          • (14/12/10/8/6) indicates the number of strings: 14 first violins, 12 second violins, 10 violas, 8 celli, and 6 double basses.

          My only confusion is with the designation cds before the last entry. My guess is that this indication is in another language—perhaps French?—and this tells us that the following numbers pertain to "strings" (cordes in French).






          share|improve this answer




















          • 7





            I believe the asterisks mean that the third player isn't playing the "normal" instrument, so probably one piccolo, one English horn, one alto or bass clarinet, and one contrabassoon. I think you're right about cds being French cordes.

            – phoog
            Mar 28 at 19:24







          • 2





            I think specifically "cel/pno" means "celesta or piano". It would be a little unusual to have both, though I imagine it's not unheard-of.

            – Darrel Hoffman
            Mar 28 at 21:01











          • I don't agree about cel/pno. I think it would normally be celesta and piano, but with one player taking both instruments (perfectly feasible if the instruments are never playing together and there is a little time to change seats).

            – David
            Mar 29 at 4:59







          • 1





            @Richard phoog is definitely right about the asterisks - I think it would be helpful if you included this in your answer. Also another remark: you will sometimes see something like 3d3*3d3* where d stands for doubling. So for the flutes, 3* means the third is playing piccolo, whereas 3d means the third is playing both flute and piccolo.

            – David
            Mar 29 at 5:01






          • 2





            Wouldn't the second 3* refer to oboes, and the third to clarinets? (Does it not follow standard score order?)

            – Ben I.
            Mar 29 at 13:00
















          21














          I would recommend consulting the source where you found this. If it was a publishing company, they may have their own system of shorthand that will clarify this.



          Otherwise, this all seems relatively standard:




          • 3*3*3*3* indicates the wind grouping with three performers each: three flutes, three oboes, three clarinets, three bassoons. The asterisks indicate that one of the players is playing another instrument of that family; one flute is also playing piccolo, one bassoon is also playing contrabassoon, etc. Contrast this with 3d, where the third player is doubling on that instrument.


          • 4331 indicates a standard brass grouping of four horns, three trumpets, three trombones, and a tuba.


          • tmp+3 indicates a timpanist and three other percussionists.


          • hp indicates harp.


          • cel/pno indicates a score for celesta/piano.


          • (14/12/10/8/6) indicates the number of strings: 14 first violins, 12 second violins, 10 violas, 8 celli, and 6 double basses.

          My only confusion is with the designation cds before the last entry. My guess is that this indication is in another language—perhaps French?—and this tells us that the following numbers pertain to "strings" (cordes in French).






          share|improve this answer




















          • 7





            I believe the asterisks mean that the third player isn't playing the "normal" instrument, so probably one piccolo, one English horn, one alto or bass clarinet, and one contrabassoon. I think you're right about cds being French cordes.

            – phoog
            Mar 28 at 19:24







          • 2





            I think specifically "cel/pno" means "celesta or piano". It would be a little unusual to have both, though I imagine it's not unheard-of.

            – Darrel Hoffman
            Mar 28 at 21:01











          • I don't agree about cel/pno. I think it would normally be celesta and piano, but with one player taking both instruments (perfectly feasible if the instruments are never playing together and there is a little time to change seats).

            – David
            Mar 29 at 4:59







          • 1





            @Richard phoog is definitely right about the asterisks - I think it would be helpful if you included this in your answer. Also another remark: you will sometimes see something like 3d3*3d3* where d stands for doubling. So for the flutes, 3* means the third is playing piccolo, whereas 3d means the third is playing both flute and piccolo.

            – David
            Mar 29 at 5:01






          • 2





            Wouldn't the second 3* refer to oboes, and the third to clarinets? (Does it not follow standard score order?)

            – Ben I.
            Mar 29 at 13:00














          21












          21








          21







          I would recommend consulting the source where you found this. If it was a publishing company, they may have their own system of shorthand that will clarify this.



          Otherwise, this all seems relatively standard:




          • 3*3*3*3* indicates the wind grouping with three performers each: three flutes, three oboes, three clarinets, three bassoons. The asterisks indicate that one of the players is playing another instrument of that family; one flute is also playing piccolo, one bassoon is also playing contrabassoon, etc. Contrast this with 3d, where the third player is doubling on that instrument.


          • 4331 indicates a standard brass grouping of four horns, three trumpets, three trombones, and a tuba.


          • tmp+3 indicates a timpanist and three other percussionists.


          • hp indicates harp.


          • cel/pno indicates a score for celesta/piano.


          • (14/12/10/8/6) indicates the number of strings: 14 first violins, 12 second violins, 10 violas, 8 celli, and 6 double basses.

          My only confusion is with the designation cds before the last entry. My guess is that this indication is in another language—perhaps French?—and this tells us that the following numbers pertain to "strings" (cordes in French).






          share|improve this answer















          I would recommend consulting the source where you found this. If it was a publishing company, they may have their own system of shorthand that will clarify this.



          Otherwise, this all seems relatively standard:




          • 3*3*3*3* indicates the wind grouping with three performers each: three flutes, three oboes, three clarinets, three bassoons. The asterisks indicate that one of the players is playing another instrument of that family; one flute is also playing piccolo, one bassoon is also playing contrabassoon, etc. Contrast this with 3d, where the third player is doubling on that instrument.


          • 4331 indicates a standard brass grouping of four horns, three trumpets, three trombones, and a tuba.


          • tmp+3 indicates a timpanist and three other percussionists.


          • hp indicates harp.


          • cel/pno indicates a score for celesta/piano.


          • (14/12/10/8/6) indicates the number of strings: 14 first violins, 12 second violins, 10 violas, 8 celli, and 6 double basses.

          My only confusion is with the designation cds before the last entry. My guess is that this indication is in another language—perhaps French?—and this tells us that the following numbers pertain to "strings" (cordes in French).







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Mar 29 at 16:49

























          answered Mar 28 at 18:10









          RichardRichard

          44.8k7105193




          44.8k7105193







          • 7





            I believe the asterisks mean that the third player isn't playing the "normal" instrument, so probably one piccolo, one English horn, one alto or bass clarinet, and one contrabassoon. I think you're right about cds being French cordes.

            – phoog
            Mar 28 at 19:24







          • 2





            I think specifically "cel/pno" means "celesta or piano". It would be a little unusual to have both, though I imagine it's not unheard-of.

            – Darrel Hoffman
            Mar 28 at 21:01











          • I don't agree about cel/pno. I think it would normally be celesta and piano, but with one player taking both instruments (perfectly feasible if the instruments are never playing together and there is a little time to change seats).

            – David
            Mar 29 at 4:59







          • 1





            @Richard phoog is definitely right about the asterisks - I think it would be helpful if you included this in your answer. Also another remark: you will sometimes see something like 3d3*3d3* where d stands for doubling. So for the flutes, 3* means the third is playing piccolo, whereas 3d means the third is playing both flute and piccolo.

            – David
            Mar 29 at 5:01






          • 2





            Wouldn't the second 3* refer to oboes, and the third to clarinets? (Does it not follow standard score order?)

            – Ben I.
            Mar 29 at 13:00













          • 7





            I believe the asterisks mean that the third player isn't playing the "normal" instrument, so probably one piccolo, one English horn, one alto or bass clarinet, and one contrabassoon. I think you're right about cds being French cordes.

            – phoog
            Mar 28 at 19:24







          • 2





            I think specifically "cel/pno" means "celesta or piano". It would be a little unusual to have both, though I imagine it's not unheard-of.

            – Darrel Hoffman
            Mar 28 at 21:01











          • I don't agree about cel/pno. I think it would normally be celesta and piano, but with one player taking both instruments (perfectly feasible if the instruments are never playing together and there is a little time to change seats).

            – David
            Mar 29 at 4:59







          • 1





            @Richard phoog is definitely right about the asterisks - I think it would be helpful if you included this in your answer. Also another remark: you will sometimes see something like 3d3*3d3* where d stands for doubling. So for the flutes, 3* means the third is playing piccolo, whereas 3d means the third is playing both flute and piccolo.

            – David
            Mar 29 at 5:01






          • 2





            Wouldn't the second 3* refer to oboes, and the third to clarinets? (Does it not follow standard score order?)

            – Ben I.
            Mar 29 at 13:00








          7




          7





          I believe the asterisks mean that the third player isn't playing the "normal" instrument, so probably one piccolo, one English horn, one alto or bass clarinet, and one contrabassoon. I think you're right about cds being French cordes.

          – phoog
          Mar 28 at 19:24






          I believe the asterisks mean that the third player isn't playing the "normal" instrument, so probably one piccolo, one English horn, one alto or bass clarinet, and one contrabassoon. I think you're right about cds being French cordes.

          – phoog
          Mar 28 at 19:24





          2




          2





          I think specifically "cel/pno" means "celesta or piano". It would be a little unusual to have both, though I imagine it's not unheard-of.

          – Darrel Hoffman
          Mar 28 at 21:01





          I think specifically "cel/pno" means "celesta or piano". It would be a little unusual to have both, though I imagine it's not unheard-of.

          – Darrel Hoffman
          Mar 28 at 21:01













          I don't agree about cel/pno. I think it would normally be celesta and piano, but with one player taking both instruments (perfectly feasible if the instruments are never playing together and there is a little time to change seats).

          – David
          Mar 29 at 4:59






          I don't agree about cel/pno. I think it would normally be celesta and piano, but with one player taking both instruments (perfectly feasible if the instruments are never playing together and there is a little time to change seats).

          – David
          Mar 29 at 4:59





          1




          1





          @Richard phoog is definitely right about the asterisks - I think it would be helpful if you included this in your answer. Also another remark: you will sometimes see something like 3d3*3d3* where d stands for doubling. So for the flutes, 3* means the third is playing piccolo, whereas 3d means the third is playing both flute and piccolo.

          – David
          Mar 29 at 5:01





          @Richard phoog is definitely right about the asterisks - I think it would be helpful if you included this in your answer. Also another remark: you will sometimes see something like 3d3*3d3* where d stands for doubling. So for the flutes, 3* means the third is playing piccolo, whereas 3d means the third is playing both flute and piccolo.

          – David
          Mar 29 at 5:01




          2




          2





          Wouldn't the second 3* refer to oboes, and the third to clarinets? (Does it not follow standard score order?)

          – Ben I.
          Mar 29 at 13:00






          Wouldn't the second 3* refer to oboes, and the third to clarinets? (Does it not follow standard score order?)

          – Ben I.
          Mar 29 at 13:00


















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