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Can a Gentile theist be saved?



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowWhat is the most successful way to do conversion for a Gentile girl in a relationship with a Jew?Yocheved is the daughter of who?Jewish viewpoint on Gentiles celebrating a Christian Seder?What is the Jewish attitude towards heretics and other religions?What can Noahides do to help bring the Moshiach?What exactly do the Noahide Laws establish regarding the Gentiles' sexual conduct?Sources forbidding a gentile from keeping the SabbathIs the obligation for Gentiles to establish a system of courts communal or individual?Where can a gentile seek guidance?Could a Jewish court try and execute a non-Jew?










15















I belong to a Christian family but I could never accept the fact that God can incarnate as a human. But I do not follow all 613 commandments either. I guess nobody can. I only follow Noahide commandments and never broke them.



Is that enough for a Gentile to be saved?










share|improve this question



















  • 10





    Be saved from what?

    – Double AA
    Mar 25 at 12:20






  • 5





    You sound like a truly honest man. What are you afraid of?

    – Shai
    Mar 25 at 12:32











  • This biblegateway.com/passage/… Ephesians 2:8-9

    – Stewart Gilligan Griffin
    Mar 25 at 14:00







  • 6





    Ephesians is as much part of the unadulterated Jewish Bible as your average tabloid, and perhaps even less so; unless you believe that Elvis is still alive, and three-headed aliens have been discovered, it shouldn't be a source of concern.

    – Zev Spitz
    Mar 25 at 15:58






  • 4





    I guess nobody can. If you mean in the sense that some commandments only apply to specific groups of people, specific times, or specific circumstances; then yes -- it is impossible to physically fulfill all the commandments . But if you mean in the sense that G-d set too high a bar for frail humans, that is rather illogical -- G-d is well aware of our abilities and limitations, and nevertheless gave the Jewish people these commandments.

    – Zev Spitz
    Mar 25 at 16:07















15















I belong to a Christian family but I could never accept the fact that God can incarnate as a human. But I do not follow all 613 commandments either. I guess nobody can. I only follow Noahide commandments and never broke them.



Is that enough for a Gentile to be saved?










share|improve this question



















  • 10





    Be saved from what?

    – Double AA
    Mar 25 at 12:20






  • 5





    You sound like a truly honest man. What are you afraid of?

    – Shai
    Mar 25 at 12:32











  • This biblegateway.com/passage/… Ephesians 2:8-9

    – Stewart Gilligan Griffin
    Mar 25 at 14:00







  • 6





    Ephesians is as much part of the unadulterated Jewish Bible as your average tabloid, and perhaps even less so; unless you believe that Elvis is still alive, and three-headed aliens have been discovered, it shouldn't be a source of concern.

    – Zev Spitz
    Mar 25 at 15:58






  • 4





    I guess nobody can. If you mean in the sense that some commandments only apply to specific groups of people, specific times, or specific circumstances; then yes -- it is impossible to physically fulfill all the commandments . But if you mean in the sense that G-d set too high a bar for frail humans, that is rather illogical -- G-d is well aware of our abilities and limitations, and nevertheless gave the Jewish people these commandments.

    – Zev Spitz
    Mar 25 at 16:07













15












15








15


2






I belong to a Christian family but I could never accept the fact that God can incarnate as a human. But I do not follow all 613 commandments either. I guess nobody can. I only follow Noahide commandments and never broke them.



Is that enough for a Gentile to be saved?










share|improve this question
















I belong to a Christian family but I could never accept the fact that God can incarnate as a human. But I do not follow all 613 commandments either. I guess nobody can. I only follow Noahide commandments and never broke them.



Is that enough for a Gentile to be saved?







gentiles noachide-laws messianic-redemption






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Mar 25 at 16:19









Al Berko

6,3301529




6,3301529










asked Mar 25 at 8:42









Stewart Gilligan GriffinStewart Gilligan Griffin

10616




10616







  • 10





    Be saved from what?

    – Double AA
    Mar 25 at 12:20






  • 5





    You sound like a truly honest man. What are you afraid of?

    – Shai
    Mar 25 at 12:32











  • This biblegateway.com/passage/… Ephesians 2:8-9

    – Stewart Gilligan Griffin
    Mar 25 at 14:00







  • 6





    Ephesians is as much part of the unadulterated Jewish Bible as your average tabloid, and perhaps even less so; unless you believe that Elvis is still alive, and three-headed aliens have been discovered, it shouldn't be a source of concern.

    – Zev Spitz
    Mar 25 at 15:58






  • 4





    I guess nobody can. If you mean in the sense that some commandments only apply to specific groups of people, specific times, or specific circumstances; then yes -- it is impossible to physically fulfill all the commandments . But if you mean in the sense that G-d set too high a bar for frail humans, that is rather illogical -- G-d is well aware of our abilities and limitations, and nevertheless gave the Jewish people these commandments.

    – Zev Spitz
    Mar 25 at 16:07












  • 10





    Be saved from what?

    – Double AA
    Mar 25 at 12:20






  • 5





    You sound like a truly honest man. What are you afraid of?

    – Shai
    Mar 25 at 12:32











  • This biblegateway.com/passage/… Ephesians 2:8-9

    – Stewart Gilligan Griffin
    Mar 25 at 14:00







  • 6





    Ephesians is as much part of the unadulterated Jewish Bible as your average tabloid, and perhaps even less so; unless you believe that Elvis is still alive, and three-headed aliens have been discovered, it shouldn't be a source of concern.

    – Zev Spitz
    Mar 25 at 15:58






  • 4





    I guess nobody can. If you mean in the sense that some commandments only apply to specific groups of people, specific times, or specific circumstances; then yes -- it is impossible to physically fulfill all the commandments . But if you mean in the sense that G-d set too high a bar for frail humans, that is rather illogical -- G-d is well aware of our abilities and limitations, and nevertheless gave the Jewish people these commandments.

    – Zev Spitz
    Mar 25 at 16:07







10




10





Be saved from what?

– Double AA
Mar 25 at 12:20





Be saved from what?

– Double AA
Mar 25 at 12:20




5




5





You sound like a truly honest man. What are you afraid of?

– Shai
Mar 25 at 12:32





You sound like a truly honest man. What are you afraid of?

– Shai
Mar 25 at 12:32













This biblegateway.com/passage/… Ephesians 2:8-9

– Stewart Gilligan Griffin
Mar 25 at 14:00






This biblegateway.com/passage/… Ephesians 2:8-9

– Stewart Gilligan Griffin
Mar 25 at 14:00





6




6





Ephesians is as much part of the unadulterated Jewish Bible as your average tabloid, and perhaps even less so; unless you believe that Elvis is still alive, and three-headed aliens have been discovered, it shouldn't be a source of concern.

– Zev Spitz
Mar 25 at 15:58





Ephesians is as much part of the unadulterated Jewish Bible as your average tabloid, and perhaps even less so; unless you believe that Elvis is still alive, and three-headed aliens have been discovered, it shouldn't be a source of concern.

– Zev Spitz
Mar 25 at 15:58




4




4





I guess nobody can. If you mean in the sense that some commandments only apply to specific groups of people, specific times, or specific circumstances; then yes -- it is impossible to physically fulfill all the commandments . But if you mean in the sense that G-d set too high a bar for frail humans, that is rather illogical -- G-d is well aware of our abilities and limitations, and nevertheless gave the Jewish people these commandments.

– Zev Spitz
Mar 25 at 16:07





I guess nobody can. If you mean in the sense that some commandments only apply to specific groups of people, specific times, or specific circumstances; then yes -- it is impossible to physically fulfill all the commandments . But if you mean in the sense that G-d set too high a bar for frail humans, that is rather illogical -- G-d is well aware of our abilities and limitations, and nevertheless gave the Jewish people these commandments.

– Zev Spitz
Mar 25 at 16:07










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















25














Judaism doesn't have a notion of "being saved". What we know is what is required of a righteous gentile. The Rambam (one of the greatest codifiers of Jewish law) writes explicitly (Mishne Torah Hilchot Melachim 8:11) that




Anyone who accepts upon himself and carefully observes the Seven
Commandments is of the Righteous of the Nations of the World and has a
portion in the World to Come.
This is as long as he accepts and
performs them because (he truly believes that) it was the Holy One,
Blessed Be He, Who commanded them in the Torah, and that is was
through Moses our Teacher we were informed that the Sons of Noah had
already been commanded to observe them.




So a Gentile who never broke the Noahide commandments for the right reasons has a portion in the World to Come.



Also, and for information, not all 613 commandments apply nowadays that we don't have a Temple. R Isaiah Horowitz (the Shelah) counted there are only 369 commandments applicable today, and some only apply to specific classes of individuals (e.g., Kohanim or Leviim, men or women) or in unique circumstances (e.g., building a house). As a result there are "only" 270 mitzvot "that every Jew is required to observe, without any particular circumstance ever having to come about" (see here for more details).






share|improve this answer

























  • unique circumstances -- What about time of day? time of year?

    – Zev Spitz
    Mar 25 at 16:11











  • @ZevSpitz the 270 do include mitzvot relevant to Shabbat or holidays as well. The number applicable to any specific minute of the year would be smaller

    – mbloch
    Mar 25 at 16:33


















1














In Judaism, there are several core figures that Yahweh makes covenants with:



Noah




Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being. “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.[Genesis 9: 1-6]




[New International Version (NIV)]



Abraham




I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. [Genesis 17:7]




Moses




Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. [Exodus 19:3-5]




The Noahide covenant was with Noah and his descendants. The Abrahamic covenant was with Abraham and his descendants. The Mosaic covenant was with the descendants of Jacob. Since, in the Judaic tradition, everyone is descended from Noah, his covenant applies to everyone. The Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants are taken to apply only to Jews.



There was also a covenant with Adam, which Adam broke, which in many Christian traditions is taken to represent the Original Sin that people must be "saved" from, but that concept does not exist in traditional Judaism.






share|improve this answer






























    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    25














    Judaism doesn't have a notion of "being saved". What we know is what is required of a righteous gentile. The Rambam (one of the greatest codifiers of Jewish law) writes explicitly (Mishne Torah Hilchot Melachim 8:11) that




    Anyone who accepts upon himself and carefully observes the Seven
    Commandments is of the Righteous of the Nations of the World and has a
    portion in the World to Come.
    This is as long as he accepts and
    performs them because (he truly believes that) it was the Holy One,
    Blessed Be He, Who commanded them in the Torah, and that is was
    through Moses our Teacher we were informed that the Sons of Noah had
    already been commanded to observe them.




    So a Gentile who never broke the Noahide commandments for the right reasons has a portion in the World to Come.



    Also, and for information, not all 613 commandments apply nowadays that we don't have a Temple. R Isaiah Horowitz (the Shelah) counted there are only 369 commandments applicable today, and some only apply to specific classes of individuals (e.g., Kohanim or Leviim, men or women) or in unique circumstances (e.g., building a house). As a result there are "only" 270 mitzvot "that every Jew is required to observe, without any particular circumstance ever having to come about" (see here for more details).






    share|improve this answer

























    • unique circumstances -- What about time of day? time of year?

      – Zev Spitz
      Mar 25 at 16:11











    • @ZevSpitz the 270 do include mitzvot relevant to Shabbat or holidays as well. The number applicable to any specific minute of the year would be smaller

      – mbloch
      Mar 25 at 16:33















    25














    Judaism doesn't have a notion of "being saved". What we know is what is required of a righteous gentile. The Rambam (one of the greatest codifiers of Jewish law) writes explicitly (Mishne Torah Hilchot Melachim 8:11) that




    Anyone who accepts upon himself and carefully observes the Seven
    Commandments is of the Righteous of the Nations of the World and has a
    portion in the World to Come.
    This is as long as he accepts and
    performs them because (he truly believes that) it was the Holy One,
    Blessed Be He, Who commanded them in the Torah, and that is was
    through Moses our Teacher we were informed that the Sons of Noah had
    already been commanded to observe them.




    So a Gentile who never broke the Noahide commandments for the right reasons has a portion in the World to Come.



    Also, and for information, not all 613 commandments apply nowadays that we don't have a Temple. R Isaiah Horowitz (the Shelah) counted there are only 369 commandments applicable today, and some only apply to specific classes of individuals (e.g., Kohanim or Leviim, men or women) or in unique circumstances (e.g., building a house). As a result there are "only" 270 mitzvot "that every Jew is required to observe, without any particular circumstance ever having to come about" (see here for more details).






    share|improve this answer

























    • unique circumstances -- What about time of day? time of year?

      – Zev Spitz
      Mar 25 at 16:11











    • @ZevSpitz the 270 do include mitzvot relevant to Shabbat or holidays as well. The number applicable to any specific minute of the year would be smaller

      – mbloch
      Mar 25 at 16:33













    25












    25








    25







    Judaism doesn't have a notion of "being saved". What we know is what is required of a righteous gentile. The Rambam (one of the greatest codifiers of Jewish law) writes explicitly (Mishne Torah Hilchot Melachim 8:11) that




    Anyone who accepts upon himself and carefully observes the Seven
    Commandments is of the Righteous of the Nations of the World and has a
    portion in the World to Come.
    This is as long as he accepts and
    performs them because (he truly believes that) it was the Holy One,
    Blessed Be He, Who commanded them in the Torah, and that is was
    through Moses our Teacher we were informed that the Sons of Noah had
    already been commanded to observe them.




    So a Gentile who never broke the Noahide commandments for the right reasons has a portion in the World to Come.



    Also, and for information, not all 613 commandments apply nowadays that we don't have a Temple. R Isaiah Horowitz (the Shelah) counted there are only 369 commandments applicable today, and some only apply to specific classes of individuals (e.g., Kohanim or Leviim, men or women) or in unique circumstances (e.g., building a house). As a result there are "only" 270 mitzvot "that every Jew is required to observe, without any particular circumstance ever having to come about" (see here for more details).






    share|improve this answer















    Judaism doesn't have a notion of "being saved". What we know is what is required of a righteous gentile. The Rambam (one of the greatest codifiers of Jewish law) writes explicitly (Mishne Torah Hilchot Melachim 8:11) that




    Anyone who accepts upon himself and carefully observes the Seven
    Commandments is of the Righteous of the Nations of the World and has a
    portion in the World to Come.
    This is as long as he accepts and
    performs them because (he truly believes that) it was the Holy One,
    Blessed Be He, Who commanded them in the Torah, and that is was
    through Moses our Teacher we were informed that the Sons of Noah had
    already been commanded to observe them.




    So a Gentile who never broke the Noahide commandments for the right reasons has a portion in the World to Come.



    Also, and for information, not all 613 commandments apply nowadays that we don't have a Temple. R Isaiah Horowitz (the Shelah) counted there are only 369 commandments applicable today, and some only apply to specific classes of individuals (e.g., Kohanim or Leviim, men or women) or in unique circumstances (e.g., building a house). As a result there are "only" 270 mitzvot "that every Jew is required to observe, without any particular circumstance ever having to come about" (see here for more details).







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Mar 25 at 12:43

























    answered Mar 25 at 9:01









    mblochmbloch

    27.2k547134




    27.2k547134












    • unique circumstances -- What about time of day? time of year?

      – Zev Spitz
      Mar 25 at 16:11











    • @ZevSpitz the 270 do include mitzvot relevant to Shabbat or holidays as well. The number applicable to any specific minute of the year would be smaller

      – mbloch
      Mar 25 at 16:33

















    • unique circumstances -- What about time of day? time of year?

      – Zev Spitz
      Mar 25 at 16:11











    • @ZevSpitz the 270 do include mitzvot relevant to Shabbat or holidays as well. The number applicable to any specific minute of the year would be smaller

      – mbloch
      Mar 25 at 16:33
















    unique circumstances -- What about time of day? time of year?

    – Zev Spitz
    Mar 25 at 16:11





    unique circumstances -- What about time of day? time of year?

    – Zev Spitz
    Mar 25 at 16:11













    @ZevSpitz the 270 do include mitzvot relevant to Shabbat or holidays as well. The number applicable to any specific minute of the year would be smaller

    – mbloch
    Mar 25 at 16:33





    @ZevSpitz the 270 do include mitzvot relevant to Shabbat or holidays as well. The number applicable to any specific minute of the year would be smaller

    – mbloch
    Mar 25 at 16:33











    1














    In Judaism, there are several core figures that Yahweh makes covenants with:



    Noah




    Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being. “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.[Genesis 9: 1-6]




    [New International Version (NIV)]



    Abraham




    I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. [Genesis 17:7]




    Moses




    Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. [Exodus 19:3-5]




    The Noahide covenant was with Noah and his descendants. The Abrahamic covenant was with Abraham and his descendants. The Mosaic covenant was with the descendants of Jacob. Since, in the Judaic tradition, everyone is descended from Noah, his covenant applies to everyone. The Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants are taken to apply only to Jews.



    There was also a covenant with Adam, which Adam broke, which in many Christian traditions is taken to represent the Original Sin that people must be "saved" from, but that concept does not exist in traditional Judaism.






    share|improve this answer



























      1














      In Judaism, there are several core figures that Yahweh makes covenants with:



      Noah




      Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being. “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.[Genesis 9: 1-6]




      [New International Version (NIV)]



      Abraham




      I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. [Genesis 17:7]




      Moses




      Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. [Exodus 19:3-5]




      The Noahide covenant was with Noah and his descendants. The Abrahamic covenant was with Abraham and his descendants. The Mosaic covenant was with the descendants of Jacob. Since, in the Judaic tradition, everyone is descended from Noah, his covenant applies to everyone. The Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants are taken to apply only to Jews.



      There was also a covenant with Adam, which Adam broke, which in many Christian traditions is taken to represent the Original Sin that people must be "saved" from, but that concept does not exist in traditional Judaism.






      share|improve this answer

























        1












        1








        1







        In Judaism, there are several core figures that Yahweh makes covenants with:



        Noah




        Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being. “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.[Genesis 9: 1-6]




        [New International Version (NIV)]



        Abraham




        I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. [Genesis 17:7]




        Moses




        Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. [Exodus 19:3-5]




        The Noahide covenant was with Noah and his descendants. The Abrahamic covenant was with Abraham and his descendants. The Mosaic covenant was with the descendants of Jacob. Since, in the Judaic tradition, everyone is descended from Noah, his covenant applies to everyone. The Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants are taken to apply only to Jews.



        There was also a covenant with Adam, which Adam broke, which in many Christian traditions is taken to represent the Original Sin that people must be "saved" from, but that concept does not exist in traditional Judaism.






        share|improve this answer













        In Judaism, there are several core figures that Yahweh makes covenants with:



        Noah




        Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being. “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.[Genesis 9: 1-6]




        [New International Version (NIV)]



        Abraham




        I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. [Genesis 17:7]




        Moses




        Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. [Exodus 19:3-5]




        The Noahide covenant was with Noah and his descendants. The Abrahamic covenant was with Abraham and his descendants. The Mosaic covenant was with the descendants of Jacob. Since, in the Judaic tradition, everyone is descended from Noah, his covenant applies to everyone. The Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants are taken to apply only to Jews.



        There was also a covenant with Adam, which Adam broke, which in many Christian traditions is taken to represent the Original Sin that people must be "saved" from, but that concept does not exist in traditional Judaism.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Mar 25 at 21:16









        AcccumulationAcccumulation

        1371




        1371













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