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Can a Knock spell open the door to Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion?
Dispelling Mage’s Magnificent MansionCan create water break some of the conjuration rules?What happens to items left in Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion?How could my enemies find my victims' corpses left in a Magnificient Mansion?Can a Large creature enter Leomund's Tiny Hut from below?How does Silence work?Do you take fall damage while inside Otiluke's Resilient Sphere?Casting Silence on a door without affecting a guard beside itCan a character shadowstep, dimension door, or teleport away from sovereign glue?Can the Glyph of Warding spell detect whether a creature passed or failed a saving throw?
$begingroup$
Assuming that a Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion is conjured and the entrance is closed, could a creature make use of the Knock spell to open the door to the mansion?
Would the gateway be not considered as an object that Knock can interact with?
Would the creatures get immediately expelled even if the entrance is open (since they were not designated to be allowed inside the mansion at the time of casting)?
dnd-5e spells
edited Mar 19 at 20:14
V2Blast
25.6k487158
asked Mar 19 at 15:32
Ceiling GeckoCeiling Gecko
283110
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Assuming that a Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion is conjured and the entrance is closed, could a creature make use of the Knock spell to open the door to the mansion?
Would the gateway be not considered as an object that Knock can interact with?
Would the creatures get immediately expelled even if the entrance is open (since they were not designated to be allowed inside the mansion at the time of casting)?
dnd-5e spells
edited Mar 19 at 20:14
V2Blast
25.6k487158
asked Mar 19 at 15:32
Ceiling GeckoCeiling Gecko
283110
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Assuming that a Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion is conjured and the entrance is closed, could a creature make use of the Knock spell to open the door to the mansion?
Would the gateway be not considered as an object that Knock can interact with?
Would the creatures get immediately expelled even if the entrance is open (since they were not designated to be allowed inside the mansion at the time of casting)?
dnd-5e spells
edited Mar 19 at 20:14
V2Blast
25.6k487158
asked Mar 19 at 15:32
Ceiling GeckoCeiling Gecko
283110
$endgroup$
Assuming that a Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion is conjured and the entrance is closed, could a creature make use of the Knock spell to open the door to the mansion?
Would the gateway be not considered as an object that Knock can interact with?
Would the creatures get immediately expelled even if the entrance is open (since they were not designated to be allowed inside the mansion at the time of casting)?
dnd-5e spells
dnd-5e spells
edited Mar 19 at 20:14
V2Blast
25.6k487158
asked Mar 19 at 15:32
Ceiling GeckoCeiling Gecko
283110
edited Mar 19 at 20:14
V2Blast
25.6k487158
asked Mar 19 at 15:32
Ceiling GeckoCeiling Gecko
283110
edited Mar 19 at 20:14
V2Blast
25.6k487158
edited Mar 19 at 20:14
V2Blast
25.6k487158
edited Mar 19 at 20:14
V2Blast
25.6k487158
25.6k487158
asked Mar 19 at 15:32
Ceiling GeckoCeiling Gecko
283110
asked Mar 19 at 15:32
Ceiling GeckoCeiling Gecko
283110
asked Mar 19 at 15:32
Ceiling GeckoCeiling Gecko
283110
283110
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Knock cannot open the portal to a Magnificent Mansion.
From Magnificent Mansion:
You conjure an extradimensional dwelling in range that lasts for the duration. You choose where its one entrance is located. The entrance shimmers faintly and is 5 feet wide and 10 feet tall. You and any creature you designate when you cast the spell can enter the extradimensional dwelling as long as the portal remains open. You can open or close the portal if you are within 30 feet of it. While closed, the portal is invisible.
Let's first assume that you overcome the fact that the Mansion's portal is invisible with a See Invisibility spell (which is reasonable, since Knock and See Invisibility are of the same level).
Now, let's take a look at Knock:
Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access.
A target that is held shut by a mundane lock or that is stuck or barred becomes unlocked, unstuck, or unbarred. If the object has multiple locks, only one of them is unlocked.
If you choose a target that is held shut with arcane lock, that spell is suppressed for 10 minutes, during which time the target can be opened and shut normally.
When you cast the spell, a loud knock, audible from as far away as 300 feet, emanates from the target object.
Emphasis mine. Note that the effect of the Knock spell is not to open a door, but to unlock, unstick, or unbar it, allowing it to be opened normally. If you cast Knock on a locked door, the door unlocks but remains closed. If you cast Knock on a closed, unlocked door, the spell has no effect. In either case, you still need to reach out, turn the knob, and physically open the door.
The portal to the mansion is not barred, stuck, or locked with a mundane lock. Neither is it locked with an Arcane Lock spell. The Knock spell effects doors that are sealed by these means, and only these means. The portal to the Magnificent Mansion is not locked, barred, stuck, or sealed with an Arcane Lock. It is simply closed. Therefore, Knock will have no effect on it, just as Knock has no effect when cast on a door that is closed but unlocked.
answered Mar 19 at 18:03
user48255user48255
4,993929
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Great answer -- what is the mechanism that keeps creatures that weren't designated at casting time from entering the extradimensional space?
$endgroup$
– A C
Mar 20 at 7:42
$begingroup$
@AC The mere fact that they were not designated.
$endgroup$
– Krzysztof Skibiński
Mar 20 at 13:58
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. I'm basing this on Knock's requirement:
Choose an object that you can see within range.
and from Magnificent Mansion:
While closed, the portal is invisible.
Since you cannot see the entrance to the dwelling, it is not a valid target for the Knock spell.
answered Mar 19 at 17:29
RajRaj
385212
$endgroup$
11
$begingroup$
Fully agree - but just for giggles it may be worthwhile to provide an answer assuming someone has See Invisibility running or Truesight.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 17:30
1
$begingroup$
I thought about that. My intuition is that you would then be able to open the portal, but that would do you no good (unless the caster designated you as one of the creatures that can enter the dwelling).
$endgroup$
– Raj
Mar 19 at 18:09
$begingroup$
I think you've got good reasoning there and that would be a nice addition to an already clear answer.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 18:10
$begingroup$
It's questionable whether the portal to the magnificent mansion would even be considered an object
$endgroup$
– Ruse
Mar 19 at 18:31
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on the wording of knock:
Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access.
you could have Knock reveal the invisible portal to the mansion as that is something which is opened/closed. However,knock lists things which require some sort of key or keyword and as access to the Mansion doesn't I would compare to Magic Circle with how the effect is looking as it were at who is trying to enter and stops them.
In the case with Magic Circle I would not allow Knock to be used to allow an otherwise blocked creature from entering and similarly I also would not allow Knock to give a creature access to the Mansion.
edited Mar 19 at 18:09
NautArch
60.9k8218403
answered Mar 19 at 17:00
TravastyTravasty
192
New contributor
Travasty is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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2
$begingroup$
What wording exactly are you basing your first sentence on? That should be the Crux of your argument but just a throwaway line. Quote the relevant part and explain how it proves your point. Answers should not be only about "this is how I would rule" without proper backing and evidence.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Mar 19 at 17:08
$begingroup$
"Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of Manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access." My phrasing definite should be different for what I am trying to say, with there being a difference between things that require a key to get through and things which have other requirements. You are correct however, my answer is more speculative as I haven't dealt with both of those spells together.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:24
$begingroup$
Ok, edited to better explain.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:51
$begingroup$
How can Knock reveal an invisible portal? Its target requirement is "an object that you can see within range". Are you arguing that a caster with See Invisible or TrueSight active could make it visible to other people? But where in the wording of Knock are you getting the reveal-invisible conclusion?
$endgroup$
– Peter Cordes
Mar 20 at 14:06
$begingroup$
The Mansion spell specifically says that the caster can 'close' the portal making it invisible. Knock as has been discussed above unlocks things to allow them to open, in this case it would mean the portal's invisibility being removed.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 21 at 19:57
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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active
oldest
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$begingroup$
Knock cannot open the portal to a Magnificent Mansion.
From Magnificent Mansion:
You conjure an extradimensional dwelling in range that lasts for the duration. You choose where its one entrance is located. The entrance shimmers faintly and is 5 feet wide and 10 feet tall. You and any creature you designate when you cast the spell can enter the extradimensional dwelling as long as the portal remains open. You can open or close the portal if you are within 30 feet of it. While closed, the portal is invisible.
Let's first assume that you overcome the fact that the Mansion's portal is invisible with a See Invisibility spell (which is reasonable, since Knock and See Invisibility are of the same level).
Now, let's take a look at Knock:
Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access.
A target that is held shut by a mundane lock or that is stuck or barred becomes unlocked, unstuck, or unbarred. If the object has multiple locks, only one of them is unlocked.
If you choose a target that is held shut with arcane lock, that spell is suppressed for 10 minutes, during which time the target can be opened and shut normally.
When you cast the spell, a loud knock, audible from as far away as 300 feet, emanates from the target object.
Emphasis mine. Note that the effect of the Knock spell is not to open a door, but to unlock, unstick, or unbar it, allowing it to be opened normally. If you cast Knock on a locked door, the door unlocks but remains closed. If you cast Knock on a closed, unlocked door, the spell has no effect. In either case, you still need to reach out, turn the knob, and physically open the door.
The portal to the mansion is not barred, stuck, or locked with a mundane lock. Neither is it locked with an Arcane Lock spell. The Knock spell effects doors that are sealed by these means, and only these means. The portal to the Magnificent Mansion is not locked, barred, stuck, or sealed with an Arcane Lock. It is simply closed. Therefore, Knock will have no effect on it, just as Knock has no effect when cast on a door that is closed but unlocked.
answered Mar 19 at 18:03
user48255user48255
4,993929
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Great answer -- what is the mechanism that keeps creatures that weren't designated at casting time from entering the extradimensional space?
$endgroup$
– A C
Mar 20 at 7:42
$begingroup$
@AC The mere fact that they were not designated.
$endgroup$
– Krzysztof Skibiński
Mar 20 at 13:58
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Knock cannot open the portal to a Magnificent Mansion.
From Magnificent Mansion:
You conjure an extradimensional dwelling in range that lasts for the duration. You choose where its one entrance is located. The entrance shimmers faintly and is 5 feet wide and 10 feet tall. You and any creature you designate when you cast the spell can enter the extradimensional dwelling as long as the portal remains open. You can open or close the portal if you are within 30 feet of it. While closed, the portal is invisible.
Let's first assume that you overcome the fact that the Mansion's portal is invisible with a See Invisibility spell (which is reasonable, since Knock and See Invisibility are of the same level).
Now, let's take a look at Knock:
Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access.
A target that is held shut by a mundane lock or that is stuck or barred becomes unlocked, unstuck, or unbarred. If the object has multiple locks, only one of them is unlocked.
If you choose a target that is held shut with arcane lock, that spell is suppressed for 10 minutes, during which time the target can be opened and shut normally.
When you cast the spell, a loud knock, audible from as far away as 300 feet, emanates from the target object.
Emphasis mine. Note that the effect of the Knock spell is not to open a door, but to unlock, unstick, or unbar it, allowing it to be opened normally. If you cast Knock on a locked door, the door unlocks but remains closed. If you cast Knock on a closed, unlocked door, the spell has no effect. In either case, you still need to reach out, turn the knob, and physically open the door.
The portal to the mansion is not barred, stuck, or locked with a mundane lock. Neither is it locked with an Arcane Lock spell. The Knock spell effects doors that are sealed by these means, and only these means. The portal to the Magnificent Mansion is not locked, barred, stuck, or sealed with an Arcane Lock. It is simply closed. Therefore, Knock will have no effect on it, just as Knock has no effect when cast on a door that is closed but unlocked.
answered Mar 19 at 18:03
user48255user48255
4,993929
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Great answer -- what is the mechanism that keeps creatures that weren't designated at casting time from entering the extradimensional space?
$endgroup$
– A C
Mar 20 at 7:42
$begingroup$
@AC The mere fact that they were not designated.
$endgroup$
– Krzysztof Skibiński
Mar 20 at 13:58
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Knock cannot open the portal to a Magnificent Mansion.
From Magnificent Mansion:
You conjure an extradimensional dwelling in range that lasts for the duration. You choose where its one entrance is located. The entrance shimmers faintly and is 5 feet wide and 10 feet tall. You and any creature you designate when you cast the spell can enter the extradimensional dwelling as long as the portal remains open. You can open or close the portal if you are within 30 feet of it. While closed, the portal is invisible.
Let's first assume that you overcome the fact that the Mansion's portal is invisible with a See Invisibility spell (which is reasonable, since Knock and See Invisibility are of the same level).
Now, let's take a look at Knock:
Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access.
A target that is held shut by a mundane lock or that is stuck or barred becomes unlocked, unstuck, or unbarred. If the object has multiple locks, only one of them is unlocked.
If you choose a target that is held shut with arcane lock, that spell is suppressed for 10 minutes, during which time the target can be opened and shut normally.
When you cast the spell, a loud knock, audible from as far away as 300 feet, emanates from the target object.
Emphasis mine. Note that the effect of the Knock spell is not to open a door, but to unlock, unstick, or unbar it, allowing it to be opened normally. If you cast Knock on a locked door, the door unlocks but remains closed. If you cast Knock on a closed, unlocked door, the spell has no effect. In either case, you still need to reach out, turn the knob, and physically open the door.
The portal to the mansion is not barred, stuck, or locked with a mundane lock. Neither is it locked with an Arcane Lock spell. The Knock spell effects doors that are sealed by these means, and only these means. The portal to the Magnificent Mansion is not locked, barred, stuck, or sealed with an Arcane Lock. It is simply closed. Therefore, Knock will have no effect on it, just as Knock has no effect when cast on a door that is closed but unlocked.
answered Mar 19 at 18:03
user48255user48255
4,993929
$endgroup$
Knock cannot open the portal to a Magnificent Mansion.
From Magnificent Mansion:
You conjure an extradimensional dwelling in range that lasts for the duration. You choose where its one entrance is located. The entrance shimmers faintly and is 5 feet wide and 10 feet tall. You and any creature you designate when you cast the spell can enter the extradimensional dwelling as long as the portal remains open. You can open or close the portal if you are within 30 feet of it. While closed, the portal is invisible.
Let's first assume that you overcome the fact that the Mansion's portal is invisible with a See Invisibility spell (which is reasonable, since Knock and See Invisibility are of the same level).
Now, let's take a look at Knock:
Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access.
A target that is held shut by a mundane lock or that is stuck or barred becomes unlocked, unstuck, or unbarred. If the object has multiple locks, only one of them is unlocked.
If you choose a target that is held shut with arcane lock, that spell is suppressed for 10 minutes, during which time the target can be opened and shut normally.
When you cast the spell, a loud knock, audible from as far away as 300 feet, emanates from the target object.
Emphasis mine. Note that the effect of the Knock spell is not to open a door, but to unlock, unstick, or unbar it, allowing it to be opened normally. If you cast Knock on a locked door, the door unlocks but remains closed. If you cast Knock on a closed, unlocked door, the spell has no effect. In either case, you still need to reach out, turn the knob, and physically open the door.
The portal to the mansion is not barred, stuck, or locked with a mundane lock. Neither is it locked with an Arcane Lock spell. The Knock spell effects doors that are sealed by these means, and only these means. The portal to the Magnificent Mansion is not locked, barred, stuck, or sealed with an Arcane Lock. It is simply closed. Therefore, Knock will have no effect on it, just as Knock has no effect when cast on a door that is closed but unlocked.
answered Mar 19 at 18:03
user48255user48255
4,993929
answered Mar 19 at 18:03
user48255user48255
4,993929
answered Mar 19 at 18:03
user48255user48255
4,993929
answered Mar 19 at 18:03
user48255user48255
4,993929
4,993929
$begingroup$
Great answer -- what is the mechanism that keeps creatures that weren't designated at casting time from entering the extradimensional space?
$endgroup$
– A C
Mar 20 at 7:42
$begingroup$
@AC The mere fact that they were not designated.
$endgroup$
– Krzysztof Skibiński
Mar 20 at 13:58
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Great answer -- what is the mechanism that keeps creatures that weren't designated at casting time from entering the extradimensional space?
$endgroup$
– A C
Mar 20 at 7:42
$begingroup$
@AC The mere fact that they were not designated.
$endgroup$
– Krzysztof Skibiński
Mar 20 at 13:58
$begingroup$
Great answer -- what is the mechanism that keeps creatures that weren't designated at casting time from entering the extradimensional space?
$endgroup$
– A C
Mar 20 at 7:42
$begingroup$
Great answer -- what is the mechanism that keeps creatures that weren't designated at casting time from entering the extradimensional space?
$endgroup$
– A C
Mar 20 at 7:42
$begingroup$
@AC The mere fact that they were not designated.
$endgroup$
– Krzysztof Skibiński
Mar 20 at 13:58
$begingroup$
@AC The mere fact that they were not designated.
$endgroup$
– Krzysztof Skibiński
Mar 20 at 13:58
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. I'm basing this on Knock's requirement:
Choose an object that you can see within range.
and from Magnificent Mansion:
While closed, the portal is invisible.
Since you cannot see the entrance to the dwelling, it is not a valid target for the Knock spell.
answered Mar 19 at 17:29
RajRaj
385212
$endgroup$
11
$begingroup$
Fully agree - but just for giggles it may be worthwhile to provide an answer assuming someone has See Invisibility running or Truesight.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 17:30
1
$begingroup$
I thought about that. My intuition is that you would then be able to open the portal, but that would do you no good (unless the caster designated you as one of the creatures that can enter the dwelling).
$endgroup$
– Raj
Mar 19 at 18:09
$begingroup$
I think you've got good reasoning there and that would be a nice addition to an already clear answer.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 18:10
$begingroup$
It's questionable whether the portal to the magnificent mansion would even be considered an object
$endgroup$
– Ruse
Mar 19 at 18:31
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. I'm basing this on Knock's requirement:
Choose an object that you can see within range.
and from Magnificent Mansion:
While closed, the portal is invisible.
Since you cannot see the entrance to the dwelling, it is not a valid target for the Knock spell.
answered Mar 19 at 17:29
RajRaj
385212
$endgroup$
11
$begingroup$
Fully agree - but just for giggles it may be worthwhile to provide an answer assuming someone has See Invisibility running or Truesight.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 17:30
1
$begingroup$
I thought about that. My intuition is that you would then be able to open the portal, but that would do you no good (unless the caster designated you as one of the creatures that can enter the dwelling).
$endgroup$
– Raj
Mar 19 at 18:09
$begingroup$
I think you've got good reasoning there and that would be a nice addition to an already clear answer.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 18:10
$begingroup$
It's questionable whether the portal to the magnificent mansion would even be considered an object
$endgroup$
– Ruse
Mar 19 at 18:31
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. I'm basing this on Knock's requirement:
Choose an object that you can see within range.
and from Magnificent Mansion:
While closed, the portal is invisible.
Since you cannot see the entrance to the dwelling, it is not a valid target for the Knock spell.
answered Mar 19 at 17:29
RajRaj
385212
$endgroup$
No. I'm basing this on Knock's requirement:
Choose an object that you can see within range.
and from Magnificent Mansion:
While closed, the portal is invisible.
Since you cannot see the entrance to the dwelling, it is not a valid target for the Knock spell.
answered Mar 19 at 17:29
RajRaj
385212
answered Mar 19 at 17:29
RajRaj
385212
answered Mar 19 at 17:29
RajRaj
385212
answered Mar 19 at 17:29
RajRaj
385212
385212
11
$begingroup$
Fully agree - but just for giggles it may be worthwhile to provide an answer assuming someone has See Invisibility running or Truesight.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 17:30
1
$begingroup$
I thought about that. My intuition is that you would then be able to open the portal, but that would do you no good (unless the caster designated you as one of the creatures that can enter the dwelling).
$endgroup$
– Raj
Mar 19 at 18:09
$begingroup$
I think you've got good reasoning there and that would be a nice addition to an already clear answer.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 18:10
$begingroup$
It's questionable whether the portal to the magnificent mansion would even be considered an object
$endgroup$
– Ruse
Mar 19 at 18:31
add a comment |
11
$begingroup$
Fully agree - but just for giggles it may be worthwhile to provide an answer assuming someone has See Invisibility running or Truesight.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 17:30
1
$begingroup$
I thought about that. My intuition is that you would then be able to open the portal, but that would do you no good (unless the caster designated you as one of the creatures that can enter the dwelling).
$endgroup$
– Raj
Mar 19 at 18:09
$begingroup$
I think you've got good reasoning there and that would be a nice addition to an already clear answer.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 18:10
$begingroup$
It's questionable whether the portal to the magnificent mansion would even be considered an object
$endgroup$
– Ruse
Mar 19 at 18:31
11
11
$begingroup$
Fully agree - but just for giggles it may be worthwhile to provide an answer assuming someone has See Invisibility running or Truesight.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 17:30
$begingroup$
Fully agree - but just for giggles it may be worthwhile to provide an answer assuming someone has See Invisibility running or Truesight.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 17:30
1
1
$begingroup$
I thought about that. My intuition is that you would then be able to open the portal, but that would do you no good (unless the caster designated you as one of the creatures that can enter the dwelling).
$endgroup$
– Raj
Mar 19 at 18:09
$begingroup$
I thought about that. My intuition is that you would then be able to open the portal, but that would do you no good (unless the caster designated you as one of the creatures that can enter the dwelling).
$endgroup$
– Raj
Mar 19 at 18:09
$begingroup$
I think you've got good reasoning there and that would be a nice addition to an already clear answer.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 18:10
$begingroup$
I think you've got good reasoning there and that would be a nice addition to an already clear answer.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Mar 19 at 18:10
$begingroup$
It's questionable whether the portal to the magnificent mansion would even be considered an object
$endgroup$
– Ruse
Mar 19 at 18:31
$begingroup$
It's questionable whether the portal to the magnificent mansion would even be considered an object
$endgroup$
– Ruse
Mar 19 at 18:31
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on the wording of knock:
Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access.
you could have Knock reveal the invisible portal to the mansion as that is something which is opened/closed. However,knock lists things which require some sort of key or keyword and as access to the Mansion doesn't I would compare to Magic Circle with how the effect is looking as it were at who is trying to enter and stops them.
In the case with Magic Circle I would not allow Knock to be used to allow an otherwise blocked creature from entering and similarly I also would not allow Knock to give a creature access to the Mansion.
edited Mar 19 at 18:09
NautArch
60.9k8218403
answered Mar 19 at 17:00
TravastyTravasty
192
New contributor
Travasty is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
What wording exactly are you basing your first sentence on? That should be the Crux of your argument but just a throwaway line. Quote the relevant part and explain how it proves your point. Answers should not be only about "this is how I would rule" without proper backing and evidence.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Mar 19 at 17:08
$begingroup$
"Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of Manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access." My phrasing definite should be different for what I am trying to say, with there being a difference between things that require a key to get through and things which have other requirements. You are correct however, my answer is more speculative as I haven't dealt with both of those spells together.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:24
$begingroup$
Ok, edited to better explain.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:51
$begingroup$
How can Knock reveal an invisible portal? Its target requirement is "an object that you can see within range". Are you arguing that a caster with See Invisible or TrueSight active could make it visible to other people? But where in the wording of Knock are you getting the reveal-invisible conclusion?
$endgroup$
– Peter Cordes
Mar 20 at 14:06
$begingroup$
The Mansion spell specifically says that the caster can 'close' the portal making it invisible. Knock as has been discussed above unlocks things to allow them to open, in this case it would mean the portal's invisibility being removed.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 21 at 19:57
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on the wording of knock:
Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access.
you could have Knock reveal the invisible portal to the mansion as that is something which is opened/closed. However,knock lists things which require some sort of key or keyword and as access to the Mansion doesn't I would compare to Magic Circle with how the effect is looking as it were at who is trying to enter and stops them.
In the case with Magic Circle I would not allow Knock to be used to allow an otherwise blocked creature from entering and similarly I also would not allow Knock to give a creature access to the Mansion.
edited Mar 19 at 18:09
NautArch
60.9k8218403
answered Mar 19 at 17:00
TravastyTravasty
192
New contributor
Travasty is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
What wording exactly are you basing your first sentence on? That should be the Crux of your argument but just a throwaway line. Quote the relevant part and explain how it proves your point. Answers should not be only about "this is how I would rule" without proper backing and evidence.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Mar 19 at 17:08
$begingroup$
"Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of Manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access." My phrasing definite should be different for what I am trying to say, with there being a difference between things that require a key to get through and things which have other requirements. You are correct however, my answer is more speculative as I haven't dealt with both of those spells together.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:24
$begingroup$
Ok, edited to better explain.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:51
$begingroup$
How can Knock reveal an invisible portal? Its target requirement is "an object that you can see within range". Are you arguing that a caster with See Invisible or TrueSight active could make it visible to other people? But where in the wording of Knock are you getting the reveal-invisible conclusion?
$endgroup$
– Peter Cordes
Mar 20 at 14:06
$begingroup$
The Mansion spell specifically says that the caster can 'close' the portal making it invisible. Knock as has been discussed above unlocks things to allow them to open, in this case it would mean the portal's invisibility being removed.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 21 at 19:57
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on the wording of knock:
Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access.
you could have Knock reveal the invisible portal to the mansion as that is something which is opened/closed. However,knock lists things which require some sort of key or keyword and as access to the Mansion doesn't I would compare to Magic Circle with how the effect is looking as it were at who is trying to enter and stops them.
In the case with Magic Circle I would not allow Knock to be used to allow an otherwise blocked creature from entering and similarly I also would not allow Knock to give a creature access to the Mansion.
edited Mar 19 at 18:09
NautArch
60.9k8218403
answered Mar 19 at 17:00
TravastyTravasty
192
New contributor
Travasty is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
Based on the wording of knock:
Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access.
you could have Knock reveal the invisible portal to the mansion as that is something which is opened/closed. However,knock lists things which require some sort of key or keyword and as access to the Mansion doesn't I would compare to Magic Circle with how the effect is looking as it were at who is trying to enter and stops them.
In the case with Magic Circle I would not allow Knock to be used to allow an otherwise blocked creature from entering and similarly I also would not allow Knock to give a creature access to the Mansion.
edited Mar 19 at 18:09
NautArch
60.9k8218403
answered Mar 19 at 17:00
TravastyTravasty
192
New contributor
Travasty is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Mar 19 at 18:09
NautArch
60.9k8218403
edited Mar 19 at 18:09
NautArch
60.9k8218403
edited Mar 19 at 18:09
NautArch
60.9k8218403
60.9k8218403
answered Mar 19 at 17:00
TravastyTravasty
192
New contributor
Travasty is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Mar 19 at 17:00
TravastyTravasty
192
answered Mar 19 at 17:00
TravastyTravasty
192
192
New contributor
Travasty is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Travasty is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Travasty is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
$begingroup$
What wording exactly are you basing your first sentence on? That should be the Crux of your argument but just a throwaway line. Quote the relevant part and explain how it proves your point. Answers should not be only about "this is how I would rule" without proper backing and evidence.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Mar 19 at 17:08
$begingroup$
"Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of Manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access." My phrasing definite should be different for what I am trying to say, with there being a difference between things that require a key to get through and things which have other requirements. You are correct however, my answer is more speculative as I haven't dealt with both of those spells together.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:24
$begingroup$
Ok, edited to better explain.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:51
$begingroup$
How can Knock reveal an invisible portal? Its target requirement is "an object that you can see within range". Are you arguing that a caster with See Invisible or TrueSight active could make it visible to other people? But where in the wording of Knock are you getting the reveal-invisible conclusion?
$endgroup$
– Peter Cordes
Mar 20 at 14:06
$begingroup$
The Mansion spell specifically says that the caster can 'close' the portal making it invisible. Knock as has been discussed above unlocks things to allow them to open, in this case it would mean the portal's invisibility being removed.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 21 at 19:57
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
What wording exactly are you basing your first sentence on? That should be the Crux of your argument but just a throwaway line. Quote the relevant part and explain how it proves your point. Answers should not be only about "this is how I would rule" without proper backing and evidence.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Mar 19 at 17:08
$begingroup$
"Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of Manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access." My phrasing definite should be different for what I am trying to say, with there being a difference between things that require a key to get through and things which have other requirements. You are correct however, my answer is more speculative as I haven't dealt with both of those spells together.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:24
$begingroup$
Ok, edited to better explain.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:51
$begingroup$
How can Knock reveal an invisible portal? Its target requirement is "an object that you can see within range". Are you arguing that a caster with See Invisible or TrueSight active could make it visible to other people? But where in the wording of Knock are you getting the reveal-invisible conclusion?
$endgroup$
– Peter Cordes
Mar 20 at 14:06
$begingroup$
The Mansion spell specifically says that the caster can 'close' the portal making it invisible. Knock as has been discussed above unlocks things to allow them to open, in this case it would mean the portal's invisibility being removed.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 21 at 19:57
2
2
$begingroup$
What wording exactly are you basing your first sentence on? That should be the Crux of your argument but just a throwaway line. Quote the relevant part and explain how it proves your point. Answers should not be only about "this is how I would rule" without proper backing and evidence.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Mar 19 at 17:08
$begingroup$
What wording exactly are you basing your first sentence on? That should be the Crux of your argument but just a throwaway line. Quote the relevant part and explain how it proves your point. Answers should not be only about "this is how I would rule" without proper backing and evidence.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Mar 19 at 17:08
$begingroup$
"Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of Manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access." My phrasing definite should be different for what I am trying to say, with there being a difference between things that require a key to get through and things which have other requirements. You are correct however, my answer is more speculative as I haven't dealt with both of those spells together.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:24
$begingroup$
"Choose an object that you can see within range. The object can be a door, a box, a chest, a set of Manacles, a padlock, or another object that contains a mundane or magical means that prevents access." My phrasing definite should be different for what I am trying to say, with there being a difference between things that require a key to get through and things which have other requirements. You are correct however, my answer is more speculative as I haven't dealt with both of those spells together.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:24
$begingroup$
Ok, edited to better explain.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:51
$begingroup$
Ok, edited to better explain.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 19 at 17:51
$begingroup$
How can Knock reveal an invisible portal? Its target requirement is "an object that you can see within range". Are you arguing that a caster with See Invisible or TrueSight active could make it visible to other people? But where in the wording of Knock are you getting the reveal-invisible conclusion?
$endgroup$
– Peter Cordes
Mar 20 at 14:06
$begingroup$
How can Knock reveal an invisible portal? Its target requirement is "an object that you can see within range". Are you arguing that a caster with See Invisible or TrueSight active could make it visible to other people? But where in the wording of Knock are you getting the reveal-invisible conclusion?
$endgroup$
– Peter Cordes
Mar 20 at 14:06
$begingroup$
The Mansion spell specifically says that the caster can 'close' the portal making it invisible. Knock as has been discussed above unlocks things to allow them to open, in this case it would mean the portal's invisibility being removed.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 21 at 19:57
$begingroup$
The Mansion spell specifically says that the caster can 'close' the portal making it invisible. Knock as has been discussed above unlocks things to allow them to open, in this case it would mean the portal's invisibility being removed.
$endgroup$
– Travasty
Mar 21 at 19:57
add a comment |
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