Does $(n+1)(n-2)x_n+1=n(n^2-n-1)x_n-(n-1)^3x_n-1$ with $x_2=x_3=1$ define a sequence that is integral at prime indices?Generalized Fibonacci Sequence QuestionA good way to find $a_50000$ where $a_n$ is a number in the form of $2^jcdot 3^k$Proof that $x^2 - 2y^2 = -1$ has a recurring solution for $x$Proving a Pellian connection in the divisibility condition $(a^2+b^2+1) mid 2(2ab+1)$A man died. Let's divide the estate!!! How?Series over $ x_n^2 $ diverges. Find sequence $ y_n^2 $ such that series over $ y_n^2 $ converges and series over $ x_n y_n $ divergesA recurrence involving the radical of an integerOn integer sequences of the form $sum_n=1^N (a(n))^2H_n^2,$ where $H_n$ is the $n$th harmonic number: refute my conjecture and add yourself exampleHow to evaluate series based on recurrence equationFind values of $a$ for which the function is periodic.
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Does $(n+1)(n-2)x_n+1=n(n^2-n-1)x_n-(n-1)^3x_n-1$ with $x_2=x_3=1$ define a sequence that is integral at prime indices?
Generalized Fibonacci Sequence QuestionA good way to find $a_50000$ where $a_n$ is a number in the form of $2^jcdot 3^k$Proof that $x^2 - 2y^2 = -1$ has a recurring solution for $x$Proving a Pellian connection in the divisibility condition $(a^2+b^2+1) mid 2(2ab+1)$A man died. Let's divide the estate!!! How?Series over $ x_n^2 $ diverges. Find sequence $ y_n^2 $ such that series over $ y_n^2 $ converges and series over $ x_n y_n $ divergesA recurrence involving the radical of an integerOn integer sequences of the form $sum_n=1^N (a(n))^2H_n^2,$ where $H_n$ is the $n$th harmonic number: refute my conjecture and add yourself exampleHow to evaluate series based on recurrence equationFind values of $a$ for which the function is periodic.
$begingroup$
My son gave me the following recurrence formula for $x_n$ ($nge2$):
$$(n+1)(n-2)x_n+1=n(n^2-n-1)x_n-(n-1)^3x_n-1tag1$$
$$x_2=x_3=1$$
The task I got from him:
- The sequence has an interesting property, find it out.
- Make a conjecture and prove it.
Obviously I had to start with a few values and calculating them by hand turned out to be difficult. So I used Mathematica and defined the sequence as follows:
b[n_] := b[n] = n (n^2 - n - 1) a[n] - (n - 1)^3 a[n - 1];
a[n_] := a[n] = b[n - 1]/(n (n - 3));
a[2] = 1;
a[3] = 1;
And I got the following results:
$$ a_4=frac74, a_5=5, a_6=frac1216, a_7=103, a_8=frac50418, a_9=frac403219, \ a_10=frac36288110, a_11=329891, a_12=frac3991680112, a_13=36846277, a_14=frac622702080114dots$$
Numbers don't make any sense but it's strange that the sequence produces integer values from time to time. It's not something that I expected from a pretty complex definition like (1).
So I decided to find the values of $n$ producing integer values of $a_n$. I did an experiment for $2le n le 100$:
table = Table[i, a[i], i, 2, 100];
integers = Select[table, (IntegerQ[#[[2]]]) &];
itegerIndexes = Map[#[[1]] &, integers]
...and the output was:
2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53,
59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97
Conjecture (pretty amazing, at least to me):
$a_n$ is an integer if and only if $n$ is prime.
Interesting primality test, isn't it? The trick is to prove that it's correct. I have started with the substitution:
$$y_n=n x_n$$
...which simplifies (1) a bit:
$$(n-2)y_n+1=(n^2-n-1)y_n-(n-1)^2y_n-1$$
...but I did not get much further (the next step, I guess, should be rearrangement).
sequences-and-series elementary-number-theory prime-numbers recurrence-relations primality-test
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My son gave me the following recurrence formula for $x_n$ ($nge2$):
$$(n+1)(n-2)x_n+1=n(n^2-n-1)x_n-(n-1)^3x_n-1tag1$$
$$x_2=x_3=1$$
The task I got from him:
- The sequence has an interesting property, find it out.
- Make a conjecture and prove it.
Obviously I had to start with a few values and calculating them by hand turned out to be difficult. So I used Mathematica and defined the sequence as follows:
b[n_] := b[n] = n (n^2 - n - 1) a[n] - (n - 1)^3 a[n - 1];
a[n_] := a[n] = b[n - 1]/(n (n - 3));
a[2] = 1;
a[3] = 1;
And I got the following results:
$$ a_4=frac74, a_5=5, a_6=frac1216, a_7=103, a_8=frac50418, a_9=frac403219, \ a_10=frac36288110, a_11=329891, a_12=frac3991680112, a_13=36846277, a_14=frac622702080114dots$$
Numbers don't make any sense but it's strange that the sequence produces integer values from time to time. It's not something that I expected from a pretty complex definition like (1).
So I decided to find the values of $n$ producing integer values of $a_n$. I did an experiment for $2le n le 100$:
table = Table[i, a[i], i, 2, 100];
integers = Select[table, (IntegerQ[#[[2]]]) &];
itegerIndexes = Map[#[[1]] &, integers]
...and the output was:
2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53,
59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97
Conjecture (pretty amazing, at least to me):
$a_n$ is an integer if and only if $n$ is prime.
Interesting primality test, isn't it? The trick is to prove that it's correct. I have started with the substitution:
$$y_n=n x_n$$
...which simplifies (1) a bit:
$$(n-2)y_n+1=(n^2-n-1)y_n-(n-1)^2y_n-1$$
...but I did not get much further (the next step, I guess, should be rearrangement).
sequences-and-series elementary-number-theory prime-numbers recurrence-relations primality-test
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
The fact that this sequence starts with the first prime index looks like a huge hint, seeing as mathematicians would start with n= 1 and software devs with n = 0 :-)
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
If you're interested in returning the favor to your son, there are Diophantine Equations which enumerate all primes. The result is an inequality such that, if this polynomial function (whose inputs are 26 whole numbers labeledathroughz) is greater than zero, thenk, the 11th argument to the function, is prime, and every prime on the entire numberline is enumerated this way.
$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Looking at OEIS reveals origins of this problem, numerators are oeis.org/A005450, denominators are oeis.org/A005451, and in the references in the second one you find this is from Problem 10578 in The American Mathematical Monthly Vol. 104, No. 3 (Mar., 1997), page 270, see jstor.org/stable/….
$endgroup$
– Sil
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My son gave me the following recurrence formula for $x_n$ ($nge2$):
$$(n+1)(n-2)x_n+1=n(n^2-n-1)x_n-(n-1)^3x_n-1tag1$$
$$x_2=x_3=1$$
The task I got from him:
- The sequence has an interesting property, find it out.
- Make a conjecture and prove it.
Obviously I had to start with a few values and calculating them by hand turned out to be difficult. So I used Mathematica and defined the sequence as follows:
b[n_] := b[n] = n (n^2 - n - 1) a[n] - (n - 1)^3 a[n - 1];
a[n_] := a[n] = b[n - 1]/(n (n - 3));
a[2] = 1;
a[3] = 1;
And I got the following results:
$$ a_4=frac74, a_5=5, a_6=frac1216, a_7=103, a_8=frac50418, a_9=frac403219, \ a_10=frac36288110, a_11=329891, a_12=frac3991680112, a_13=36846277, a_14=frac622702080114dots$$
Numbers don't make any sense but it's strange that the sequence produces integer values from time to time. It's not something that I expected from a pretty complex definition like (1).
So I decided to find the values of $n$ producing integer values of $a_n$. I did an experiment for $2le n le 100$:
table = Table[i, a[i], i, 2, 100];
integers = Select[table, (IntegerQ[#[[2]]]) &];
itegerIndexes = Map[#[[1]] &, integers]
...and the output was:
2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53,
59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97
Conjecture (pretty amazing, at least to me):
$a_n$ is an integer if and only if $n$ is prime.
Interesting primality test, isn't it? The trick is to prove that it's correct. I have started with the substitution:
$$y_n=n x_n$$
...which simplifies (1) a bit:
$$(n-2)y_n+1=(n^2-n-1)y_n-(n-1)^2y_n-1$$
...but I did not get much further (the next step, I guess, should be rearrangement).
sequences-and-series elementary-number-theory prime-numbers recurrence-relations primality-test
$endgroup$
My son gave me the following recurrence formula for $x_n$ ($nge2$):
$$(n+1)(n-2)x_n+1=n(n^2-n-1)x_n-(n-1)^3x_n-1tag1$$
$$x_2=x_3=1$$
The task I got from him:
- The sequence has an interesting property, find it out.
- Make a conjecture and prove it.
Obviously I had to start with a few values and calculating them by hand turned out to be difficult. So I used Mathematica and defined the sequence as follows:
b[n_] := b[n] = n (n^2 - n - 1) a[n] - (n - 1)^3 a[n - 1];
a[n_] := a[n] = b[n - 1]/(n (n - 3));
a[2] = 1;
a[3] = 1;
And I got the following results:
$$ a_4=frac74, a_5=5, a_6=frac1216, a_7=103, a_8=frac50418, a_9=frac403219, \ a_10=frac36288110, a_11=329891, a_12=frac3991680112, a_13=36846277, a_14=frac622702080114dots$$
Numbers don't make any sense but it's strange that the sequence produces integer values from time to time. It's not something that I expected from a pretty complex definition like (1).
So I decided to find the values of $n$ producing integer values of $a_n$. I did an experiment for $2le n le 100$:
table = Table[i, a[i], i, 2, 100];
integers = Select[table, (IntegerQ[#[[2]]]) &];
itegerIndexes = Map[#[[1]] &, integers]
...and the output was:
2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53,
59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97
Conjecture (pretty amazing, at least to me):
$a_n$ is an integer if and only if $n$ is prime.
Interesting primality test, isn't it? The trick is to prove that it's correct. I have started with the substitution:
$$y_n=n x_n$$
...which simplifies (1) a bit:
$$(n-2)y_n+1=(n^2-n-1)y_n-(n-1)^2y_n-1$$
...but I did not get much further (the next step, I guess, should be rearrangement).
sequences-and-series elementary-number-theory prime-numbers recurrence-relations primality-test
sequences-and-series elementary-number-theory prime-numbers recurrence-relations primality-test
edited yesterday
Song
18.2k21449
18.2k21449
asked 2 days ago
OldboyOldboy
8,84611138
8,84611138
2
$begingroup$
The fact that this sequence starts with the first prime index looks like a huge hint, seeing as mathematicians would start with n= 1 and software devs with n = 0 :-)
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
If you're interested in returning the favor to your son, there are Diophantine Equations which enumerate all primes. The result is an inequality such that, if this polynomial function (whose inputs are 26 whole numbers labeledathroughz) is greater than zero, thenk, the 11th argument to the function, is prime, and every prime on the entire numberline is enumerated this way.
$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Looking at OEIS reveals origins of this problem, numerators are oeis.org/A005450, denominators are oeis.org/A005451, and in the references in the second one you find this is from Problem 10578 in The American Mathematical Monthly Vol. 104, No. 3 (Mar., 1997), page 270, see jstor.org/stable/….
$endgroup$
– Sil
yesterday
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
The fact that this sequence starts with the first prime index looks like a huge hint, seeing as mathematicians would start with n= 1 and software devs with n = 0 :-)
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
If you're interested in returning the favor to your son, there are Diophantine Equations which enumerate all primes. The result is an inequality such that, if this polynomial function (whose inputs are 26 whole numbers labeledathroughz) is greater than zero, thenk, the 11th argument to the function, is prime, and every prime on the entire numberline is enumerated this way.
$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Looking at OEIS reveals origins of this problem, numerators are oeis.org/A005450, denominators are oeis.org/A005451, and in the references in the second one you find this is from Problem 10578 in The American Mathematical Monthly Vol. 104, No. 3 (Mar., 1997), page 270, see jstor.org/stable/….
$endgroup$
– Sil
yesterday
2
2
$begingroup$
The fact that this sequence starts with the first prime index looks like a huge hint, seeing as mathematicians would start with n= 1 and software devs with n = 0 :-)
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
$begingroup$
The fact that this sequence starts with the first prime index looks like a huge hint, seeing as mathematicians would start with n= 1 and software devs with n = 0 :-)
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
If you're interested in returning the favor to your son, there are Diophantine Equations which enumerate all primes. The result is an inequality such that, if this polynomial function (whose inputs are 26 whole numbers labeled
a through z) is greater than zero, then k, the 11th argument to the function, is prime, and every prime on the entire numberline is enumerated this way.$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
2 days ago
$begingroup$
If you're interested in returning the favor to your son, there are Diophantine Equations which enumerate all primes. The result is an inequality such that, if this polynomial function (whose inputs are 26 whole numbers labeled
a through z) is greater than zero, then k, the 11th argument to the function, is prime, and every prime on the entire numberline is enumerated this way.$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Looking at OEIS reveals origins of this problem, numerators are oeis.org/A005450, denominators are oeis.org/A005451, and in the references in the second one you find this is from Problem 10578 in The American Mathematical Monthly Vol. 104, No. 3 (Mar., 1997), page 270, see jstor.org/stable/….
$endgroup$
– Sil
yesterday
$begingroup$
Looking at OEIS reveals origins of this problem, numerators are oeis.org/A005450, denominators are oeis.org/A005451, and in the references in the second one you find this is from Problem 10578 in The American Mathematical Monthly Vol. 104, No. 3 (Mar., 1997), page 270, see jstor.org/stable/….
$endgroup$
– Sil
yesterday
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The given difference equation can be solved in the following way. We have for $nge 3$,
$$
(n-2)(y_n+1-y_n) = (n-1)^2(y_n-y_n-1),\
fracy_n+1-y_nn-1=(n-1)fracy_n-y_n-1n-2.
$$ If we let $displaystyle z_n=fracy_n-y_n-1n-2$, it follows that
$$
z_n+1=(n-1)z_n=(n-1)(n-2)z_n-1=cdots =(n-1)!z_3=(n-1)!frac3x_3-2x_21=(n-1)!
$$ This gives
$$
y_n+1-y_n=(n-1)(n-1)!=n!-(n-1)!,
$$ hence $y_n = nx_n = (n-1)!+c$ for some $c$. Plugging $n=2$ yields $2=1!+c$, thus we have that $$displaystyle x_n =frac(n-1)!+1n.$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The $n^rmth$ term of the sequence is $dfrac(n-1)! + 1n$, which is an integer if and only if $n$ is prime (according to Wilson's Theorem).
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Yes, but it is not obvious. Can you prove it?
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
I can and I did. The algebra is tedious but not difficult.
$endgroup$
– FredH
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
I have upvoted your answer but I accepted the one with the whole solution. :)
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Too long for a comment:
Numbers don't make any sense
Actually, they do ! :-) Just take a closer look at the sequence's composite-index denominators, and notice the following:
$$
a_colorblue4=frac7colorblue4,quad
a_5=5,quad
a_colorblue6=frac121colorblue6,quad
a_7=103,quad
a_colorblue8=frac5041colorblue8,quad
a_colorblue9=frac40321colorblue9,quad
\~\~\
a_colorblue10=frac362881colorblue10,
a_11=329891,quad
a_colorblue12=frac39916801colorblue12,quad
a_13=36846277,quaddots
$$
Let us now rewrite the sequence's prime-indexed elements in a similar manner, for a more uniform approach:
$$
a_colorblue4=frac7colorblue4,quad
a_colorblue5=frac25colorblue5,quad
a_colorblue6=frac121colorblue6,quad
a_colorblue7=frac721colorblue7,quad
a_colorblue8=frac5041colorblue8,quad
a_colorblue9=frac40321colorblue9,quad
\~\~\
a_colorblue10=frac362881colorblue10,
a_colorblue11=frac3628801colorblue11,quad
a_colorblue12=frac39916801colorblue12,quad
a_colorblue13=frac479001601colorblue13,quaddots
$$
At this point, we might be able to cheat, and use OEIS to identify the afferent sequence $colorblueb_n=ncdot a_n$ by its first few elements, yielding three possible suspects: but let's say that our mathematical virtue and intellectual integrity will prevail over our base urges of rampant curiosity, and we might resist the temptation to do so. Could we then, without any outside aide, still manage to deduce an expression for $b_n$ ? Indeed, even a superficial glance will undoubtedly reveal the growth to resemble what one might otherwise expect to see in a geometric progression, rather than an arithmetic one. We then have:
$$
r_colorblue4=frac257simeqcolorblue4,quad
r_colorblue5=frac12125simeqcolorblue5,quad
r_colorblue6=frac721121simeqcolorblue6,quad
r_colorblue7=frac5041721simeqcolorblue7,quaddots
$$
In short, $colorbluer_n=dfracb_n+1b_nsimeq n.~$ A type of “modified geometric progression”, as it were, with a variable ratio equal to the index itself: Does this sound in any way familiar ? If no, there is still no need to worry: We'll get to the bottom of it soon enough, anyway. More precisely, we have $colorblueb_n+1=ncdot b_n-(n-1).~$ Now we are left with showing that, for prime values of the index p, $~colorbluea_p=dfracb_ppinmathbb N,~$ starting from $colorblueb_2=2.~$ Could mathematical induction work in this case, or does the seemingly random distribution of primes throw a wrench into such an approach ? And, if so, could we then maybe slightly modify it, to fit the new conditions ? What would you say ? :-)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I'm confused. What does this add to the existing answers which already give the explicit formula $x_n=((n-1)!+1)/n$?
$endgroup$
– YiFan
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
@YiFan: Clarity, perhaps ? Maybe a bit of intuition ?
$endgroup$
– Lucian
yesterday
$begingroup$
+1. These types of answers are by far the most helpful IMO. They encourage discovery and intuitive thinking rather than just giving the answer.
$endgroup$
– TreFox
yesterday
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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$begingroup$
The given difference equation can be solved in the following way. We have for $nge 3$,
$$
(n-2)(y_n+1-y_n) = (n-1)^2(y_n-y_n-1),\
fracy_n+1-y_nn-1=(n-1)fracy_n-y_n-1n-2.
$$ If we let $displaystyle z_n=fracy_n-y_n-1n-2$, it follows that
$$
z_n+1=(n-1)z_n=(n-1)(n-2)z_n-1=cdots =(n-1)!z_3=(n-1)!frac3x_3-2x_21=(n-1)!
$$ This gives
$$
y_n+1-y_n=(n-1)(n-1)!=n!-(n-1)!,
$$ hence $y_n = nx_n = (n-1)!+c$ for some $c$. Plugging $n=2$ yields $2=1!+c$, thus we have that $$displaystyle x_n =frac(n-1)!+1n.$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The given difference equation can be solved in the following way. We have for $nge 3$,
$$
(n-2)(y_n+1-y_n) = (n-1)^2(y_n-y_n-1),\
fracy_n+1-y_nn-1=(n-1)fracy_n-y_n-1n-2.
$$ If we let $displaystyle z_n=fracy_n-y_n-1n-2$, it follows that
$$
z_n+1=(n-1)z_n=(n-1)(n-2)z_n-1=cdots =(n-1)!z_3=(n-1)!frac3x_3-2x_21=(n-1)!
$$ This gives
$$
y_n+1-y_n=(n-1)(n-1)!=n!-(n-1)!,
$$ hence $y_n = nx_n = (n-1)!+c$ for some $c$. Plugging $n=2$ yields $2=1!+c$, thus we have that $$displaystyle x_n =frac(n-1)!+1n.$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The given difference equation can be solved in the following way. We have for $nge 3$,
$$
(n-2)(y_n+1-y_n) = (n-1)^2(y_n-y_n-1),\
fracy_n+1-y_nn-1=(n-1)fracy_n-y_n-1n-2.
$$ If we let $displaystyle z_n=fracy_n-y_n-1n-2$, it follows that
$$
z_n+1=(n-1)z_n=(n-1)(n-2)z_n-1=cdots =(n-1)!z_3=(n-1)!frac3x_3-2x_21=(n-1)!
$$ This gives
$$
y_n+1-y_n=(n-1)(n-1)!=n!-(n-1)!,
$$ hence $y_n = nx_n = (n-1)!+c$ for some $c$. Plugging $n=2$ yields $2=1!+c$, thus we have that $$displaystyle x_n =frac(n-1)!+1n.$$
$endgroup$
The given difference equation can be solved in the following way. We have for $nge 3$,
$$
(n-2)(y_n+1-y_n) = (n-1)^2(y_n-y_n-1),\
fracy_n+1-y_nn-1=(n-1)fracy_n-y_n-1n-2.
$$ If we let $displaystyle z_n=fracy_n-y_n-1n-2$, it follows that
$$
z_n+1=(n-1)z_n=(n-1)(n-2)z_n-1=cdots =(n-1)!z_3=(n-1)!frac3x_3-2x_21=(n-1)!
$$ This gives
$$
y_n+1-y_n=(n-1)(n-1)!=n!-(n-1)!,
$$ hence $y_n = nx_n = (n-1)!+c$ for some $c$. Plugging $n=2$ yields $2=1!+c$, thus we have that $$displaystyle x_n =frac(n-1)!+1n.$$
answered 2 days ago
SongSong
18.2k21449
18.2k21449
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The $n^rmth$ term of the sequence is $dfrac(n-1)! + 1n$, which is an integer if and only if $n$ is prime (according to Wilson's Theorem).
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Yes, but it is not obvious. Can you prove it?
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
I can and I did. The algebra is tedious but not difficult.
$endgroup$
– FredH
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
I have upvoted your answer but I accepted the one with the whole solution. :)
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The $n^rmth$ term of the sequence is $dfrac(n-1)! + 1n$, which is an integer if and only if $n$ is prime (according to Wilson's Theorem).
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Yes, but it is not obvious. Can you prove it?
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
I can and I did. The algebra is tedious but not difficult.
$endgroup$
– FredH
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
I have upvoted your answer but I accepted the one with the whole solution. :)
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The $n^rmth$ term of the sequence is $dfrac(n-1)! + 1n$, which is an integer if and only if $n$ is prime (according to Wilson's Theorem).
$endgroup$
The $n^rmth$ term of the sequence is $dfrac(n-1)! + 1n$, which is an integer if and only if $n$ is prime (according to Wilson's Theorem).
answered 2 days ago
FredHFredH
2,2931020
2,2931020
2
$begingroup$
Yes, but it is not obvious. Can you prove it?
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
I can and I did. The algebra is tedious but not difficult.
$endgroup$
– FredH
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
I have upvoted your answer but I accepted the one with the whole solution. :)
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Yes, but it is not obvious. Can you prove it?
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
I can and I did. The algebra is tedious but not difficult.
$endgroup$
– FredH
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
I have upvoted your answer but I accepted the one with the whole solution. :)
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Yes, but it is not obvious. Can you prove it?
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Yes, but it is not obvious. Can you prove it?
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
I can and I did. The algebra is tedious but not difficult.
$endgroup$
– FredH
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I can and I did. The algebra is tedious but not difficult.
$endgroup$
– FredH
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I have upvoted your answer but I accepted the one with the whole solution. :)
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I have upvoted your answer but I accepted the one with the whole solution. :)
$endgroup$
– Oldboy
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Too long for a comment:
Numbers don't make any sense
Actually, they do ! :-) Just take a closer look at the sequence's composite-index denominators, and notice the following:
$$
a_colorblue4=frac7colorblue4,quad
a_5=5,quad
a_colorblue6=frac121colorblue6,quad
a_7=103,quad
a_colorblue8=frac5041colorblue8,quad
a_colorblue9=frac40321colorblue9,quad
\~\~\
a_colorblue10=frac362881colorblue10,
a_11=329891,quad
a_colorblue12=frac39916801colorblue12,quad
a_13=36846277,quaddots
$$
Let us now rewrite the sequence's prime-indexed elements in a similar manner, for a more uniform approach:
$$
a_colorblue4=frac7colorblue4,quad
a_colorblue5=frac25colorblue5,quad
a_colorblue6=frac121colorblue6,quad
a_colorblue7=frac721colorblue7,quad
a_colorblue8=frac5041colorblue8,quad
a_colorblue9=frac40321colorblue9,quad
\~\~\
a_colorblue10=frac362881colorblue10,
a_colorblue11=frac3628801colorblue11,quad
a_colorblue12=frac39916801colorblue12,quad
a_colorblue13=frac479001601colorblue13,quaddots
$$
At this point, we might be able to cheat, and use OEIS to identify the afferent sequence $colorblueb_n=ncdot a_n$ by its first few elements, yielding three possible suspects: but let's say that our mathematical virtue and intellectual integrity will prevail over our base urges of rampant curiosity, and we might resist the temptation to do so. Could we then, without any outside aide, still manage to deduce an expression for $b_n$ ? Indeed, even a superficial glance will undoubtedly reveal the growth to resemble what one might otherwise expect to see in a geometric progression, rather than an arithmetic one. We then have:
$$
r_colorblue4=frac257simeqcolorblue4,quad
r_colorblue5=frac12125simeqcolorblue5,quad
r_colorblue6=frac721121simeqcolorblue6,quad
r_colorblue7=frac5041721simeqcolorblue7,quaddots
$$
In short, $colorbluer_n=dfracb_n+1b_nsimeq n.~$ A type of “modified geometric progression”, as it were, with a variable ratio equal to the index itself: Does this sound in any way familiar ? If no, there is still no need to worry: We'll get to the bottom of it soon enough, anyway. More precisely, we have $colorblueb_n+1=ncdot b_n-(n-1).~$ Now we are left with showing that, for prime values of the index p, $~colorbluea_p=dfracb_ppinmathbb N,~$ starting from $colorblueb_2=2.~$ Could mathematical induction work in this case, or does the seemingly random distribution of primes throw a wrench into such an approach ? And, if so, could we then maybe slightly modify it, to fit the new conditions ? What would you say ? :-)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I'm confused. What does this add to the existing answers which already give the explicit formula $x_n=((n-1)!+1)/n$?
$endgroup$
– YiFan
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
@YiFan: Clarity, perhaps ? Maybe a bit of intuition ?
$endgroup$
– Lucian
yesterday
$begingroup$
+1. These types of answers are by far the most helpful IMO. They encourage discovery and intuitive thinking rather than just giving the answer.
$endgroup$
– TreFox
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Too long for a comment:
Numbers don't make any sense
Actually, they do ! :-) Just take a closer look at the sequence's composite-index denominators, and notice the following:
$$
a_colorblue4=frac7colorblue4,quad
a_5=5,quad
a_colorblue6=frac121colorblue6,quad
a_7=103,quad
a_colorblue8=frac5041colorblue8,quad
a_colorblue9=frac40321colorblue9,quad
\~\~\
a_colorblue10=frac362881colorblue10,
a_11=329891,quad
a_colorblue12=frac39916801colorblue12,quad
a_13=36846277,quaddots
$$
Let us now rewrite the sequence's prime-indexed elements in a similar manner, for a more uniform approach:
$$
a_colorblue4=frac7colorblue4,quad
a_colorblue5=frac25colorblue5,quad
a_colorblue6=frac121colorblue6,quad
a_colorblue7=frac721colorblue7,quad
a_colorblue8=frac5041colorblue8,quad
a_colorblue9=frac40321colorblue9,quad
\~\~\
a_colorblue10=frac362881colorblue10,
a_colorblue11=frac3628801colorblue11,quad
a_colorblue12=frac39916801colorblue12,quad
a_colorblue13=frac479001601colorblue13,quaddots
$$
At this point, we might be able to cheat, and use OEIS to identify the afferent sequence $colorblueb_n=ncdot a_n$ by its first few elements, yielding three possible suspects: but let's say that our mathematical virtue and intellectual integrity will prevail over our base urges of rampant curiosity, and we might resist the temptation to do so. Could we then, without any outside aide, still manage to deduce an expression for $b_n$ ? Indeed, even a superficial glance will undoubtedly reveal the growth to resemble what one might otherwise expect to see in a geometric progression, rather than an arithmetic one. We then have:
$$
r_colorblue4=frac257simeqcolorblue4,quad
r_colorblue5=frac12125simeqcolorblue5,quad
r_colorblue6=frac721121simeqcolorblue6,quad
r_colorblue7=frac5041721simeqcolorblue7,quaddots
$$
In short, $colorbluer_n=dfracb_n+1b_nsimeq n.~$ A type of “modified geometric progression”, as it were, with a variable ratio equal to the index itself: Does this sound in any way familiar ? If no, there is still no need to worry: We'll get to the bottom of it soon enough, anyway. More precisely, we have $colorblueb_n+1=ncdot b_n-(n-1).~$ Now we are left with showing that, for prime values of the index p, $~colorbluea_p=dfracb_ppinmathbb N,~$ starting from $colorblueb_2=2.~$ Could mathematical induction work in this case, or does the seemingly random distribution of primes throw a wrench into such an approach ? And, if so, could we then maybe slightly modify it, to fit the new conditions ? What would you say ? :-)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I'm confused. What does this add to the existing answers which already give the explicit formula $x_n=((n-1)!+1)/n$?
$endgroup$
– YiFan
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
@YiFan: Clarity, perhaps ? Maybe a bit of intuition ?
$endgroup$
– Lucian
yesterday
$begingroup$
+1. These types of answers are by far the most helpful IMO. They encourage discovery and intuitive thinking rather than just giving the answer.
$endgroup$
– TreFox
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Too long for a comment:
Numbers don't make any sense
Actually, they do ! :-) Just take a closer look at the sequence's composite-index denominators, and notice the following:
$$
a_colorblue4=frac7colorblue4,quad
a_5=5,quad
a_colorblue6=frac121colorblue6,quad
a_7=103,quad
a_colorblue8=frac5041colorblue8,quad
a_colorblue9=frac40321colorblue9,quad
\~\~\
a_colorblue10=frac362881colorblue10,
a_11=329891,quad
a_colorblue12=frac39916801colorblue12,quad
a_13=36846277,quaddots
$$
Let us now rewrite the sequence's prime-indexed elements in a similar manner, for a more uniform approach:
$$
a_colorblue4=frac7colorblue4,quad
a_colorblue5=frac25colorblue5,quad
a_colorblue6=frac121colorblue6,quad
a_colorblue7=frac721colorblue7,quad
a_colorblue8=frac5041colorblue8,quad
a_colorblue9=frac40321colorblue9,quad
\~\~\
a_colorblue10=frac362881colorblue10,
a_colorblue11=frac3628801colorblue11,quad
a_colorblue12=frac39916801colorblue12,quad
a_colorblue13=frac479001601colorblue13,quaddots
$$
At this point, we might be able to cheat, and use OEIS to identify the afferent sequence $colorblueb_n=ncdot a_n$ by its first few elements, yielding three possible suspects: but let's say that our mathematical virtue and intellectual integrity will prevail over our base urges of rampant curiosity, and we might resist the temptation to do so. Could we then, without any outside aide, still manage to deduce an expression for $b_n$ ? Indeed, even a superficial glance will undoubtedly reveal the growth to resemble what one might otherwise expect to see in a geometric progression, rather than an arithmetic one. We then have:
$$
r_colorblue4=frac257simeqcolorblue4,quad
r_colorblue5=frac12125simeqcolorblue5,quad
r_colorblue6=frac721121simeqcolorblue6,quad
r_colorblue7=frac5041721simeqcolorblue7,quaddots
$$
In short, $colorbluer_n=dfracb_n+1b_nsimeq n.~$ A type of “modified geometric progression”, as it were, with a variable ratio equal to the index itself: Does this sound in any way familiar ? If no, there is still no need to worry: We'll get to the bottom of it soon enough, anyway. More precisely, we have $colorblueb_n+1=ncdot b_n-(n-1).~$ Now we are left with showing that, for prime values of the index p, $~colorbluea_p=dfracb_ppinmathbb N,~$ starting from $colorblueb_2=2.~$ Could mathematical induction work in this case, or does the seemingly random distribution of primes throw a wrench into such an approach ? And, if so, could we then maybe slightly modify it, to fit the new conditions ? What would you say ? :-)
$endgroup$
Too long for a comment:
Numbers don't make any sense
Actually, they do ! :-) Just take a closer look at the sequence's composite-index denominators, and notice the following:
$$
a_colorblue4=frac7colorblue4,quad
a_5=5,quad
a_colorblue6=frac121colorblue6,quad
a_7=103,quad
a_colorblue8=frac5041colorblue8,quad
a_colorblue9=frac40321colorblue9,quad
\~\~\
a_colorblue10=frac362881colorblue10,
a_11=329891,quad
a_colorblue12=frac39916801colorblue12,quad
a_13=36846277,quaddots
$$
Let us now rewrite the sequence's prime-indexed elements in a similar manner, for a more uniform approach:
$$
a_colorblue4=frac7colorblue4,quad
a_colorblue5=frac25colorblue5,quad
a_colorblue6=frac121colorblue6,quad
a_colorblue7=frac721colorblue7,quad
a_colorblue8=frac5041colorblue8,quad
a_colorblue9=frac40321colorblue9,quad
\~\~\
a_colorblue10=frac362881colorblue10,
a_colorblue11=frac3628801colorblue11,quad
a_colorblue12=frac39916801colorblue12,quad
a_colorblue13=frac479001601colorblue13,quaddots
$$
At this point, we might be able to cheat, and use OEIS to identify the afferent sequence $colorblueb_n=ncdot a_n$ by its first few elements, yielding three possible suspects: but let's say that our mathematical virtue and intellectual integrity will prevail over our base urges of rampant curiosity, and we might resist the temptation to do so. Could we then, without any outside aide, still manage to deduce an expression for $b_n$ ? Indeed, even a superficial glance will undoubtedly reveal the growth to resemble what one might otherwise expect to see in a geometric progression, rather than an arithmetic one. We then have:
$$
r_colorblue4=frac257simeqcolorblue4,quad
r_colorblue5=frac12125simeqcolorblue5,quad
r_colorblue6=frac721121simeqcolorblue6,quad
r_colorblue7=frac5041721simeqcolorblue7,quaddots
$$
In short, $colorbluer_n=dfracb_n+1b_nsimeq n.~$ A type of “modified geometric progression”, as it were, with a variable ratio equal to the index itself: Does this sound in any way familiar ? If no, there is still no need to worry: We'll get to the bottom of it soon enough, anyway. More precisely, we have $colorblueb_n+1=ncdot b_n-(n-1).~$ Now we are left with showing that, for prime values of the index p, $~colorbluea_p=dfracb_ppinmathbb N,~$ starting from $colorblueb_2=2.~$ Could mathematical induction work in this case, or does the seemingly random distribution of primes throw a wrench into such an approach ? And, if so, could we then maybe slightly modify it, to fit the new conditions ? What would you say ? :-)
answered yesterday
LucianLucian
41.4k159131
41.4k159131
$begingroup$
I'm confused. What does this add to the existing answers which already give the explicit formula $x_n=((n-1)!+1)/n$?
$endgroup$
– YiFan
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
@YiFan: Clarity, perhaps ? Maybe a bit of intuition ?
$endgroup$
– Lucian
yesterday
$begingroup$
+1. These types of answers are by far the most helpful IMO. They encourage discovery and intuitive thinking rather than just giving the answer.
$endgroup$
– TreFox
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm confused. What does this add to the existing answers which already give the explicit formula $x_n=((n-1)!+1)/n$?
$endgroup$
– YiFan
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
@YiFan: Clarity, perhaps ? Maybe a bit of intuition ?
$endgroup$
– Lucian
yesterday
$begingroup$
+1. These types of answers are by far the most helpful IMO. They encourage discovery and intuitive thinking rather than just giving the answer.
$endgroup$
– TreFox
yesterday
$begingroup$
I'm confused. What does this add to the existing answers which already give the explicit formula $x_n=((n-1)!+1)/n$?
$endgroup$
– YiFan
yesterday
$begingroup$
I'm confused. What does this add to the existing answers which already give the explicit formula $x_n=((n-1)!+1)/n$?
$endgroup$
– YiFan
yesterday
3
3
$begingroup$
@YiFan: Clarity, perhaps ? Maybe a bit of intuition ?
$endgroup$
– Lucian
yesterday
$begingroup$
@YiFan: Clarity, perhaps ? Maybe a bit of intuition ?
$endgroup$
– Lucian
yesterday
$begingroup$
+1. These types of answers are by far the most helpful IMO. They encourage discovery and intuitive thinking rather than just giving the answer.
$endgroup$
– TreFox
yesterday
$begingroup$
+1. These types of answers are by far the most helpful IMO. They encourage discovery and intuitive thinking rather than just giving the answer.
$endgroup$
– TreFox
yesterday
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
The fact that this sequence starts with the first prime index looks like a huge hint, seeing as mathematicians would start with n= 1 and software devs with n = 0 :-)
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
If you're interested in returning the favor to your son, there are Diophantine Equations which enumerate all primes. The result is an inequality such that, if this polynomial function (whose inputs are 26 whole numbers labeled
athroughz) is greater than zero, thenk, the 11th argument to the function, is prime, and every prime on the entire numberline is enumerated this way.$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Looking at OEIS reveals origins of this problem, numerators are oeis.org/A005450, denominators are oeis.org/A005451, and in the references in the second one you find this is from Problem 10578 in The American Mathematical Monthly Vol. 104, No. 3 (Mar., 1997), page 270, see jstor.org/stable/….
$endgroup$
– Sil
yesterday